Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Fran Kondorf on October 18, 2014 at 7:02am

Thanks for the link, BritBoy- that article's a great read.

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Permalink Reply by Haddon on October 18, 2014 at 6:26pm

I have been trying to find the right model that might apply.  This is the one that pops up and it's past my bedtime so it's the one I'm going to go with.  The current angst about cycling is a reflection of it's growing prevalence, with that people are going to have some opinions and it may be that we are just now in the 'anger' stage. Later when everyone gets acclimated things will level out. 

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Permalink Reply by Marc A. Irwin on October 19, 2014 at 4:48am

     One thing people avoid talking about is how bicycling (for transportation) represents an attack upon established values.  After all, people do not buy cars for transportation.  If they did, there would be a lot more Prius and Geo Metro's running around.  Cars are bought in compliance to Madison Avenue's proposal that the automobile is a necessary social symbol.  During the past 70 years it has been developed as a rolling calling card to announce your social position and persona to the world.  A cyclist riding to the grocery store or work represents a challenge, someone who rejects that value so carefully developed by the auto and oil industry. 

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Permalink Reply by Not too hip on October 20, 2014 at 3:19pm

I  think that over 50% of Chicago cyclists are clueless or arrogant. It is not just rolling stop signs an red lights, it is weaving in and out of slow moving traffic. As a driver I consider these guys morons, as a cyclist I consider these guys morons. It is incumbent on cyclists (at well over 50%) to show that they can follow the rules of the road. I will not participate in critical mass because it demonstrates the arrogance of cyclists.

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Permalink Reply by Tandemonium on October 20, 2014 at 4:24pm

I think that over 50% of Chicago drivers are texting or arrogant. It is not just speeding through residential areas or gunning it to make a red light, it is passing everyone else using the right turn lane. As a ped & cyclist I consider these guys morons, as a driver I consider them assholes. It is incumbent on motorists to show that they can follow the rules of the road. I will not drive my car to work during rush hour because it demonstrates the arrogance of motorists, to grind the system to a halt, for their own convenience. :P

Not too hip said:

I  think that over 50% of Chicago cyclists are clueless or arrogant. It is not just rolling stop signs an red lights, it is weaving in and out of slow moving traffic. As a driver I consider these guys morons, as a cyclist I consider these guys morons. It is incumbent on cyclists (at well over 50%) to show that they can follow the rules of the road. I will not participate in critical mass because it demonstrates the arrogance of cyclists.

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Permalink Reply by Alex Z on October 21, 2014 at 2:11am

:clap: Especially last last bit. ;)

Tandemonium said:

I think that over 50% of Chicago drivers are texting or arrogant. It is not just speeding through residential areas or gunning it to make a red light, it is passing everyone else using the right turn lane. As a ped & cyclist I consider these guys morons, as a driver I consider them assholes. It is incumbent on motorists to show that they can follow the rules of the road. I will not drive my car to work during rush hour because it demonstrates the arrogance of motorists, to grind the system to a halt, for their own convenience. :P

Not too hip said:

I  think that over 50% of Chicago cyclists are clueless or arrogant. It is not just rolling stop signs an red lights, it is weaving in and out of slow moving traffic. As a driver I consider these guys morons, as a cyclist I consider these guys morons. It is incumbent on cyclists (at well over 50%) to show that they can follow the rules of the road. I will not participate in critical mass because it demonstrates the arrogance of cyclists.

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Permalink Reply by David Barish on October 21, 2014 at 5:06am

I am not so sure if this is the case.  There are both cyclists and drivers who project status in their vehicles whether its a two wheeled Seven or a four wheeled Jaguar. The rest of the world uses their vehicles for transportation and recreation. The #1 selling car in the USA is the Toyota Camry (which chagrins this lawyer for UAW workers). Still, this is a practical rather than status vehicle. The bulk of drivers and cyclists are trying to safely get from point A to point B. 

A growing  population realizes that when I ride my bike to work there is one less bit of flotsam clogging the Kennedy Expressway. When I ride my bike to the grocery store there is one more available parking space. The people who feel entitled and put us in peril use both means of transportation.  There is something to be said for the juxtaposition of Tandemonium's and Not to hip's comments. a segment of both populations are oblivious and don't seem to care about the rest of us. 

Getting to the original post the problem (and it has been repeated by others on this forum in many threads) is that we all get lumped together. The messenger who nearly ran into people per another recent thread is the symbol and he is remembered rather than the mom I saw this morning toting her  kids in a dutch bike. We remember miscreants in BMW's rather than the person in a Chevy who waves us through an intersection. Its tough to break through these prejudices and see who people really are. That is another conversation. This gets even tougher when we have an encounter with the messenger or the miscreant. We lash out at the entire group.   That's what makes somebody like Scott Simon foolishly lump a group together. He ought to know better than to think all cyclists act the same. When I get cut off that driver is the #&@#hole. The other drivers are just drivers.

Marc A. Irwin said:

     One thing people avoid talking about is how bicycling (for transportation) represents an attack upon established values.  After all, people do not buy cars for transportation.  If they did, there would be a lot more Prius and Geo Metro's running around.  Cars are bought in compliance to Madison Avenue's proposal that the automobile is a necessary social symbol.  During the past 70 years it has been developed as a rolling calling card to announce your social position and persona to the world.  A cyclist riding to the grocery store or work represents a challenge, someone who rejects that value so carefully developed by the auto and oil industry. 

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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on October 21, 2014 at 5:20am

Well said. Yes, the extremes are memorable. Most of the drivers I encounter while out riding in my neighborhood cause me no trouble and don't stick in my memory. The guy in the beat up work van with the racing stripe who speeds down our street, or the woman in the big silver Mercedes who has almost run me over on a few recent mornings as I was riding out of my driveway on my way to the train - they stick in memory. I don't know if I make any impression on them. Probably not, except as a momentary obstacle.
 
David Barish said:

I am not so sure if this is the case.  There are both cyclists and drivers who project status in their vehicles whether its a two wheeled Seven or a four wheeled Jaguar. The rest of the world uses their vehicles for transportation and recreation. The #1 selling car in the USA is the Toyota Camry (which chagrins this lawyer for UAW workers). Still, this is a practical rather than status vehicle. The bulk of drivers and cyclists are trying to safely get from point A to point B. 

A growing  population realizes that when I ride my bike to work there is one  one bit of flotsam clogging the Kennedy Expressway. When I ride my bike to the grocery store there is one more available parking space. The people who feel entitled and put us in peril use both means of transportation.  There is something to be said for the juxtaposition of Tandemonium's and Not to hip's comments. a segment of both populations are oblivious and don't seem to care about the rest of us. 

Getting to the original post the problem (and it has been repeated by others on this forum in many threads) is that we all get lumped together. The messenger who nearly ran into people per another recent thread is the symbol and he is remembered rather than the mom I saw this morning toting her  kids in a dutch bike. We remember miscreants in BMW's rather than the person in a Chevy who waves us through an intersection. Its tough to break through these prejudices and see who people really are. That is another conversation. This gets even tougher when we have an encounter with the messenger or the miscreant. We lash out at the entire group.   That's what makes somebody like Scott Simon foolishly lump a group together. He ought to know better than to think all cyclists act the same. When I get cut off that driver is the #&@#hole. The other drivers are just drivers.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Zumwalt on October 22, 2014 at 4:04am

Critical mass is a peaceful protest, a group event much like a parade. The police block traffic and ride with the group most if not all the way to make sure cyclists and drivers "follow the rules". They don't allow "corking".
Drivers and pedestrians have a higher sense of entitlement, IMO. With the marked crosswalks requring motorists to stop for pedestrians has led to people just crossing the street expecting any vehicle anywhere to stop just because they want to cross.
I've seen pedestrians cross against the light or just stand in the road as if every where is a crossing.
I roll stop signs on side roads or if no traffic is visible at an intersection as well as weave in slow or stopped traffic but most times that's because there are cars in the bike lane.
Most drivers I encounter wave me through even if they have right of way or we just end up in a staring moment where they forgot how a 4 way stop works!?
Maybe they're used to seeing cyclists blow stops and think I' m going to as well, but I come to a stop, put my feet down THEN get a wave through.

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Permalink Reply by Not too hip on October 26, 2014 at 11:17am

It is nice to read the comments. I stand by my earlier post but I will admit that I run stop signs and red lights when there is no traffic around (usually around 5:30 - 6:00 am). When there is traffic I follow the rules. Even though it is legal I don't right side cars where there is no bike lane. And as the guy in Austin wants, I wave appreciation to drivers as we work together.

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