What does everyone do or say to 'bad' cyclists?? Anything?
It stinks that, as cyclists, we often pay the price no matter who is really at fault.
I feel very strongly that motorists should be held to a higher level of liability, given that cars kill so many people every day and cyclists are the most vulnerable to this. So, it makes sense that we can 'get away' with stuff that cars cant.
I also have zero issues about pointing out awful motorist behavior directly to their faces - yelling, kicking, and even sometimes spitting all fall within the realm of acceptable behavior from my own prospective when it comes to people who choose to drive their cars in a way that hugely risks my safety (and life!).
No one likes to be told that their behavior is wrong - even when it clearly is. People don't learn this way. It's only natural to become defensive and angry.
When it comes to motorists - I don't care. Let them get angry. Maybe they'll think about it again later and perhaps not do that again.
so... here's the huge BUT....
What about cyclists?? I believe that it's totally okay to treat stop signs like yields and red lights like stop signs. I'll even do a bit of slow, cautious sidewalk or wrong way riding to save myself a trip around the block every now and then.
But I'm talking about those who dart through intersections, wrong way riders in all black with no lights or helmets, cyclists who zip past us within inches and don't announce it, bad attempts at track stands at intersections confusing motorists... Sometimes, it's also just an FYI - like locking only the front wheel, wearing a helmet backwards, untied shoelaces, dying blinkies...
This stuff does no benefit to city cycling whatsoever. In fact, I often worry that I now have to pass all those motorists that the 'bad cyclist' who darted in front of me has just pissed off. I cringe nearly every day at how many bike-hating motorists are created by us.
Let's not give them a reason to hate us, huh?!?
Even when it's just a backwards helmet or bikes locked with only a front wheel, etc... That person won't be a cyclist for long. Their bad experience is clearly just around the corner, and they'll be back in a car before the fall, telling all their friends that they tried bicycling... and it was awful.
SO...
While it's still early in the season, this is the time of year that all this stuff is at it's peak.
How do you call out 'bad' cyclists?? It's just as important that we say something to them as it is that we do it to motorists... if not more so.
Sometimes, I just call out, "Please ride safely!", but that's a bit silly. Like I said, no one likes to be told that what they're doing is wrong - people get angry and defensive.
What's the proper way to encourage folks to make the right decisions?? What does everyone here do or say?
Thanks!!
Views: 2253
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michelle Milham on
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Yup! I had this happen to me yesterday, and there was one on my left and one on my right at MKE and Division, neither of whom gave me any warning.They're lucky I didn't wobble, which is perfectly feasible ATM because it's now my third day clipless. And they were at full speed too. Scared the SHIT out of me.
Simon Phearson said:I also get the type that passes just as the light is changing - so they're not running the red, but they're passing me just as I'm about to start up again. I'm also a fast commuter, so I'll often end up passing them.
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Permalink Reply by Kevin Mulcky on
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I almost got hit by TWO other cyclists on my commute home on Wednesday. One guy ran a red light - his disk brakes were squawking as he locked up his rear wheel trying to avoid a collision with me at as I rode west through Ashland/Augusta. I had just past two shoalers at the intersection, when I was nearly hit and just sighed, "I'm surrounded by idiots."
The other guy nearly hit me right down the road, as he was trying to run a red light and didn't see a car coming from the other direction. He ended loosing control and stopping right beside me, uncomfortably close, basically brushing my shoulder. I just looked at him and said "hi." in my sexiest voice...That threw him off!
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Permalink Reply by Irvin Steinert on
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That's exactly why cyclists need to obey the law too (at least as much as cars do).
KevinM said:I almost got hit by TWO other cyclists on my commute home on Wednesday. One guy ran a red light - his disk brakes were squawking as he locked up his rear wheel trying to avoid a collision with me at as I rode west through Ashland/Augusta. I had just past two shoalers at the intersection, when I was nearly hit and just sighed, "I'm surrounded by idiots."
The other guy nearly hit me right down the road, as he was trying to run a red light and didn't see a car coming from the other direction. He ended loosing control and stopping right beside me, uncomfortably close, basically brushing my shoulder. I just looked at him and said "hi." in my sexiest voice...That threw him off!
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I am benefiting from reading these posts as someone who doesn't know how his behavior is perceived by other cyclists since it's difficult to ask. Thanks everybody.
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Permalink Reply by Roger on
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A couple of points for Chicagoland Cyclists, from a Colorado Cyclist who just moved here. We (Chicagoland) have an amazing cycling culture. I spent over an hour talking bikes with a new shop I stopped in, and have met many cyclists on the LFT and elsewhere, exchanged kind words, numbers, and promises of riding together soon. I even joined a great group of cyclists to get out more.
However ...
I couldn't agree with Jody more here - some Chicagoland cyclists are giving many other cyclists a bad name. And it isn't the salmon riders in bike lanes, though I point them out; it isn't the Divvy Bikers without helmets, in the middle of the trail, swerving and meandering at 4mph, though I moderately verbally abusive to them; it isn't the LFT rider with no shirt/helmet/common sense/spatial awareness/bikehandling skill/both ears plugged into the latest dubstep track/no signaling wankers, though I make a special point to blow past them and yell left so loud, it interrupts beach volleyball play.
IT IS ALL OF THIS.
So pass along this info:
Sidewalks are not for bicycles - you will only end up taking the pedestrian and yourself out.
Helmets for all cyclists - unless you want catastrophic injury.
Wrong way/One way is arrogance - unless your life's goal is to be a cab's hood ornament.
Pedal on the right and pass left - you do it in a car right (wait ... probably not).
Four abreast on the LFT is like wearing a sign that says moron - everyone who passes you thinks it, and most probably say it.
Signaling, especially if you ride up on someone, actually protects you!
If you get called out, you were probably doing something wrong - Your first response laden with expletives is most likely not the correct response. Try "sorry".
And most of all, enjoy the bike culture you have created! Read Velonews, follow some pro teams on twitter, get out for a group ride regardless of your ability, share this lifestyle with your kids, and enjoy the lifestyle now that summer is upon us.
Just let me know when you're turning left!
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Permalink Reply by Tricolor on
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I don't think so. None of this bad bike behavior is at all acceptable if you replace the bikes with cars. The few people that would drive like this would get a metric crapton of abuse.
Irvin Steinert said:I believe all these issues are the "car" mentality that has been ingrained in our society. For some reason, "what we can get away with" is considered the plausible norm.
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I... DK.
I'm all for following the rules in most situations in my life. I have a chronic fear of rule-breaking. But some laws for cars don't do cyclists any favors. I'm not saying it should be a free for all out there. But at stop signs and lights where you've SIGNIFICANTLY slowed and there's NO other traffic around... I don't see why it should be our duty to stop. Especially on say, the residential part of Logan Blvd, or going East down Superior into River North, where there's a stop sign or stop light every block and the stop lights are so long that you're frequently sitting there staring at an empty cross street for no reason because all the cars have gone through already. In that case, it's clear the stops and lights are to reduce car speed, which isn't a cyclist problem.
So YES I think we should follow rules... but not all of them/not always.
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Permalink Reply by David Barish on
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A couple of nights ago an adult woman was riding on the sidewalk on a very dark street in Evanston. She did have lights. I passed her but was going to make a right turn. At the corner I stopped to wait for her fearing that I would right hook her. She stopped and we looked at each other before she hesitantly waived me on. I wanted to open the window and politely tell her that it would be safer to ride on the street as she would be more visible. i saw her because...well I am on this board. Other drivers might not have seen her. My wife said, "She is not your problem. Just let her go and drive on." I did.
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Permalink Reply by Michelle S on
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Roger, welcome to Chicago and I hope you continue to enjoy your experience here. However, I want to say that the "cycling culture" here may be different from that in Colorado. From your list of complaints, it sounds like you're more from a road bike/racing culture, which does exist here (Yay!), but there are many other types of people riding bikes in Chicago, and each one the right to be out there on the Lakefront Trail, in the bike lanes, and on the streets as much as you do. These include slow riders, casual riders, people hauling heavy loads, commuters, senior citizens, students, tourists, who are riding Divvy bikes, cruisers, hybrids, tandems, cargo bikes, fat-tire bikes and anything else you can think of. Yay for all of them! Some people find themselves riding the wrong way in a bike lane or on a sidewalk by mistake, or because they're not familiar with the area, or no safer choices are given them. Some people don't signal or "follow the rules" because they're new to all of this. Let's give them time and be happy they're out there with us.
Roger said:A couple of points for Chicagoland Cyclists, from a Colorado Cyclist who just moved here. We (Chicagoland) have an amazing cycling culture. I spent over an hour talking bikes with a new shop I stopped in, and have met many cyclists on the LFT and elsewhere, exchanged kind words, numbers, and promises of riding together soon. I even joined a great group of cyclists to get out more.
However ...
I couldn't agree with Jody more here - some Chicagoland cyclists are giving many other cyclists a bad name. And it isn't the salmon riders in bike lanes, though I point them out; it isn't the Divvy Bikers without helmets, in the middle of the trail, swerving and meandering at 4mph, though I moderately verbally abusive to them; it isn't the LFT rider with no shirt/helmet/common sense/spatial awareness/bikehandling skill/both ears plugged into the latest dubstep track/no signaling wankers, though I make a special point to blow past them and yell left so loud, it interrupts beach volleyball play.
IT IS ALL OF THIS.
So pass along this info:
Sidewalks are not for bicycles - you will only end up taking the pedestrian and yourself out.
Helmets for all cyclists - unless you want catastrophic injury.
Wrong way/One way is arrogance - unless your life's goal is to be a cab's hood ornament.
Pedal on the right and pass left - you do it in a car right (wait ... probably not).
Four abreast on the LFT is like wearing a sign that says moron - everyone who passes you thinks it, and most probably say it.
Signaling, especially if you ride up on someone, actually protects you!
If you get called out, you were probably doing something wrong - Your first response laden with expletives is most likely not the correct response. Try "sorry".
And most of all, enjoy the bike culture you have created! Read Velonews, follow some pro teams on twitter, get out for a group ride regardless of your ability, share this lifestyle with your kids, and enjoy the lifestyle now that summer is upon us.
Just let me know when you're turning left!
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Michelle, while you are of course right that no particular demographic has "dibs" on the city's infrastructure, you'll note that Roger's complaints have virtually nothing to do with who's riding, and entirely to do with how. There are good Divvyers, there are bad Divvyers. He's complaining about the bad ones.
Some people out there certainly are new - we're all "new" to cycling at some point. But why is that an excuse? You wouldn't forgive a teenaged new driver who rolls over a cyclist because he's too busy texting, nor would you credit his claim that he just didn't see someone he should have seen, on this basis - would you?
Everyone who's biking on city streets or the LFP has a duty, first and foremost, to bike in a way that doesn't put others at risk. I don't care if they're new or not - if I go down because of their behavior, they're just as culpable, and I'm just as hurt. In some cases, there is really no excuse - salmoning should be obviously wrong with even a passing familiarity with traffic flow, for instance. Signaling should be a familiar habit for anyone who drives, too. Some of Roger's rules are more subtle and picked up on only with experience - ride to the right, pass to the left being one of those. But it shouldn't take a ton of experience to figure out you shouldn't be meandering slowly down the middle of the LPF, should it? Or to avoid riding four abreast?
Would you forgive the roadie riding through North Ave. Beach on a Saturday for plowing too quickly, just because he's new to cycling in Chicago?
I totally agree that we're not promoting ridership very well if we are openly hostile to everyone who doesn't follow every one of the rules we think they're supposed to follow. But we can find a good middle point between broad hostility and broad, uncritical acceptance. As it happens, most of the people who put me in danger on the streets or the LFP most days aren't new, and they should know better, just by thinking about their circumstances and observing those around them. That is how I learned to be a better and safer cyclist, myself.
Michelle Stenzel said:Roger, welcome to Chicago and I hope you continue to enjoy your experience here. However, I want to say that the "cycling culture" here may be different from that in Colorado. From your list of complaints, it sounds like you're more from a road bike/racing culture, which does exist here (Yay!), but there are many other types of people riding bikes in Chicago, and each one the right to be out there on the Lakefront Trail, in the bike lanes, and on the streets as much as you do. These include slow riders, casual riders, people hauling heavy loads, commuters, senior citizens, students, tourists, who are riding Divvy bikes, cruisers, hybrids, tandems, cargo bikes, fat-tire bikes and anything else you can think of. Yay for all of them! Some people find themselves riding the wrong way in a bike lane or on a sidewalk by mistake, or because they're not familiar with the area, or no safer choices are given them. Some people don't signal or "follow the rules" because they're new to all of this. Let's give them time and be happy they're out there with us.
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Permalink Reply by David Altenburg on
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That intersection is the worst. Especially because there's that bit of sunken asphalt around a manhole cover, so if you find yourself headed for that with cyclists on either side, you're screwed.
Michelle Milham said:
Yup! I had this happen to me yesterday, and there was one on my left and one on my right at MKE and Division, neither of whom gave me any warning.They're lucky I didn't wobble, which is perfectly feasible ATM because it's now my third day clipless. And they were at full speed too. Scared the SHIT out of me.
Simon Phearson said:I also get the type that passes just as the light is changing - so they're not running the red, but they're passing me just as I'm about to start up again. I'm also a fast commuter, so I'll often end up passing them.
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Please stop. Their behavior is annoying, I get it. But we were all newbies once, and I for one, hope all those noobs trying out biking now keep at it and get more experienced - in which case, most will learn to ride straight and even buy their own all-important magic hat. Cycling in the city is scary for those not used to it - it really doesn't take much to scare off a lot of people.
Roger said:it isn't the Divvy Bikers without helmets, in the middle of the trail, swerving and meandering at 4mph, though I moderately verbally abusive to them;
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