What does everyone do or say to 'bad' cyclists?? Anything?

People do all kinds of ridiculous stuff on the road - we all know it.

It stinks that, as cyclists, we often pay the price no matter who is really at fault.

I feel very strongly that motorists should be held to a higher level of liability, given that cars kill so many people every day and cyclists are the most vulnerable to this. So, it makes sense that we can 'get away' with stuff that cars cant.

I also have zero issues about pointing out awful motorist behavior directly to their faces - yelling, kicking, and even sometimes spitting all fall within the realm of acceptable behavior from my own prospective when it comes to people who choose to drive their cars in a way that hugely risks my safety (and life!).

No one likes to be told that their behavior is wrong - even when it clearly is. People don't learn this way. It's only natural to become defensive and angry.

When it comes to motorists - I don't care. Let them get angry. Maybe they'll think about it again later and perhaps not do that again.

so... here's the huge BUT....

What about cyclists?? I believe that it's totally okay to treat stop signs like yields and red lights like stop signs. I'll even do a bit of slow, cautious sidewalk or wrong way riding to save myself a trip around the block every now and then.

But I'm talking about those who dart through intersections, wrong way riders in all black with no lights or helmets, cyclists who zip past us within inches and don't announce it, bad attempts at track stands at intersections confusing motorists... Sometimes, it's also just an FYI - like locking only the front wheel, wearing a helmet backwards, untied shoelaces, dying blinkies...

This stuff does no benefit to city cycling whatsoever. In fact, I often worry that I now have to pass all those motorists that the 'bad cyclist' who darted in front of me has just pissed off. I cringe nearly every day at how many bike-hating motorists are created by us.

Let's not give them a reason to hate us, huh?!?

Even when it's just a backwards helmet or bikes locked with only a front wheel, etc... That person won't be a cyclist for long. Their bad experience is clearly just around the corner, and they'll be back in a car before the fall, telling all their friends that they tried bicycling... and it was awful.

SO...

While it's still early in the season, this is the time of year that all this stuff is at it's peak.

How do you call out 'bad' cyclists?? It's just as important that we say something to them as it is that we do it to motorists... if not more so.

Sometimes, I just call out, "Please ride safely!", but that's a bit silly. Like I said, no one likes to be told that what they're doing is wrong - people get angry and defensive.

What's the proper way to encourage folks to make the right decisions?? What does everyone here do or say?

Thanks!!

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by cutifly on June 9, 2009 at 5:59am
ooopps sometimes I ride on the sidewalks, but usually only when there is tons of traffic trying to cross western and I don't do it when there is more than a few people. Make sure to give me a big "Screw you" if you see me doing it.
Permalink Reply by lauren sailor on June 9, 2009 at 7:06am
if they're not riding with a child, i might try, "there's plenty of room in the street!" or "plenty of room in the bike lane!"
a lot of the adults i've seen on the sidewalk of late are riding with children, though, which i totally support. it's legal for the kid (under 12 yrs) to be on the sidewalk, but not the adult—dumb, IMO. if you're riding at a child's pace you're not much of a threat to pedestrians... but that's a topic for another thread.

i try to yell, " NICE BIKE!" to cars parked in the bike lane, but i can't think of an analog for bike-riders on the sidewalk. if you yelled, "great ambulation!" they probably wouldn't get it...

and don't worry, cutifly, sometimes riding on the sidewalk IS the most logical option, and i cannot blame you if you do so with the utmost of courtesy for peds. my dad used to tell me, "if you know the rules you can break them," and i think that's probably the case here. you can respect the intent of the law, even if you don't necessarily follow it to the letter.

maud amanda squiers said:
for the most part, i figure that if people want to be reckless, go ahead. image problems aside, their bad behavior has little effect on me.
however! my greatest pet peeve in the world has got to be bicyclists on the sidewalk. what do i do with them? they make me want to scream, "get on the effing street! you have wheels!" but - even when there are 'no bikes on sidewalk' signs *coughdowntownevanstoncough* - i just feel like a curmudgeony old woman that no one would listen to. am i irrational? is there a decent response to them?
Permalink Reply by cutifly on June 9, 2009 at 7:48am
One thing I a totally scared of is riding on the sidewalks where it is posted for tickets. I am so paranoid that I always just obey. I guess that is one reason I like Mass so much.
Permalink Reply by Jody on June 17, 2009 at 5:50pm
I thought of this post as I said something tonight...

A cyclist ahead of me ran a red light and nearly got hit by a left turn-er. He was wearing all black, headphones, and no lights. He rode in the door zone and weaved in his path - keeping as far right a possible.

I waited until the next signal that had cross traffic and then said - 'Hey - I'm really glad that you're on a bike - its the right decision. But do yourself a favor and google bike safety'.

...false courtesy... called me Mam... condescending - but I'll take that over 'asshole' any day.

So I said, 'for YOU, there's staying out of the door zone and riding in a straight line...' 'for the rest of us, there's the headphones, no blinky, no helmet in all black running lights.'. (ok, it didnt make that much sense, but you only have a second to say something)

He thanked me.... in a nasty voice.

I think that went just about as well as it could!
Permalink Reply by Kevin Mulcky on June 18, 2009 at 8:04am
I too, said something yesterday. I was riding by cabrini Green on division. The road is super bad right there and i was carrying a heavy unbalance load; my concentration was elsewhere you might say. All of a sudden, i look up to see two dudes (one sitting on the handlebars, one steering) riding salmon-style my way. We're in heavy traffic so there's not much space.

I said, "Yo! Watch out!"

and before i could finish they both responded viciously with something like, "shut the -f- up, you punk a$$, mother-f."

So yea. I would have just rather not said anything. I doubt anyone benefited from that exchange. and it put me in a sour mood for the next couple hours.
Permalink Reply by Simon Phearson on June 4, 2014 at 4:00pm

I thought it might be fun to revive this thread, since we've gotten into an "annoying unsolicited advice-giver" thread in the Missed Connections thread. 

I'm curious what people's thoughts might be, now that Divvy is active and ridership so visible at times/places, on when it's appropriate to "advise" other cyclists, and what it might be appropriate to "advise" them on.

It seems obvious that cycling etiquette advises against instructing fellow riders on "neural physiognomy." But it's also probably fair to say that "advice" like notes on form, adjustments, or tire pressure is unlikely to be wanted, since we're (or I am, at any rate) usually in a defensive mental mode when we're on the street and likely tuning a lot of unsolicited speech out. That's true even when it comes to "advice" that is about that other cyclist's safety, like on the proper way to wear a helmet or on the wisdom of riding with operative lights.

Lately, I've been finding myself inclined to chew out other cyclists when they (i) ride through red lights and directly into my path or (ii) ride handless or while operating phones/cameras on crowded sections of the LFP. I feel justified in doing so because those are actions that put me and others in danger. But that might be the "wrong" intuition. Is it really any of my business if some guy can't avoid a child running across the LFP because he's too busy texting? Or - can I really hope that my shouting at him is going to help?

What about Divvy riders? I know there are lots of commuters on Divvy who need no instruction. But tourists? Are we to a certain extent obliged to tell them not to salmon in packs downtown? Or to get off the sidewalks? 

Permalink Reply by Simon Phearson on June 4, 2014 at 4:52pm

I suppose that's basically what I do. That generally seems to be how the unwritten social rules that we follow are developed and, over time, adhered to.

But I can think of a few non-cycling examples in my life where there are apparently well-established and broadly-followed rules that particular individuals just don't follow. Piles of leftovers in the communal fridge at work. Grunters at the gym. And so on. Those individuals apparently benefit, in their idiosyncratic, solipsistic ways, from the social norm that counsels against ever saying anything to them and leaving well enough alone. But is that something we ought to perpetuate? Is that norm of non-interference something we ought to observe?

In the cycling context - I agree, no one wants to listen to a lecture. Experiential wisdom would seem to support the conclusion that unsolicited lectures are seldom heeded. But then I wonder. I haven't immediately been receptive to felt criticisms of my own cycling behavior, in some cases that I can think of, but further reflection has sometimes led me to change my behavior, to be more considerate of others, or to try to puzzle out different habits. Is it possible we're all inclined to adapt, if only our non-conformity is pointed out to us - while none of us are highly inclined to do so, with one another? 

Jeff Schneider said:

Nobody wants to listen to a lecture.  The best you can do, whether cycling or driving, is:

1) Be prepared for the usual things the bad ones do - fail to yield, fail to signal, etc.;

2) Keep a safe distance from all other cyclists/drivers, giving yourself room to take evasive action.  You never know in advance which ones are 'bad';

3) Stay calm when they do stupid stuff; slow down and yield to their stupidity as necessary;

4) Be a good example.  Signal maneuvers; stay out of the door zone; yield to pedestrians, other cyclists and drivers as the law requires; smile and wave sometimes; have fun.

Permalink Reply by Andy J on June 5, 2014 at 2:23am

For cyclists, the most I'll say is "Be careful". If the response I get looks like the give a crap, or don't know what I'm talking about, I'll explain what they did that endangered themselves (or myself); e.g. "That van had no idea you were going to blow through that stop sign". Otherwise I leave it at that.

For cars that I catch up to at lights, I like to open with "I have three little girls at home". When they look at me dumbfounded I follow up with "I'd like to get home in one piece".

That usually gets the point across...

Permalink Reply by Apie (11) on June 5, 2014 at 3:13am

If it just so happens I choose to speak the bad cyclist, which I rarely do, I might call them a Genius or I may say "you're annoying".

Permalink Reply by Julia 3.5/7.5 mi on June 5, 2014 at 3:38am

I alternate between the obvious - "Red means stop. Don't ride like a jerk" or education "hey - when you pull up in front of someone like this at a light, it's called shoaling and it's considered really rude. I promise if you just hang back, I won't be in your way." Usually depends on the person and how savvy they are on their bike. Most folks I encounter doing something with poor etiquette don't seem to know better. I was ready to snap at this girl who kept shoaling me on Elston recently on this creaky old schwinn, and finally after 4 lights in a row + rolling part way into the Elston/Fullerton intersection, she admitted she was trying to stop but her brakes weren't really working. (WHAT?!)

I think I'm mostly frustrated by the people who make dumb choices that end up affecting me - like not signaling left or right, not checking behind you before cutting across or making a sudden move, or my favorite - anyone who suddenly stops their divvy bike in the middle of the lane. We're all on the same team here. Signaling intent and showing a little consideration for everyone around you isn't that hard.

Permalink Reply by David P. on June 5, 2014 at 4:11am

I do my best to avoid giving unasked-for advice. The one bike-related exception I make is if I see someone locking their bike up really badly (e.g. through the front wheel only) - I don't want anyone to get their bike stolen.

For everyone else, my answer to the OP's question may be, if I do anything, "make fun of them on the internet" :)

Permalink Reply by Adam Z on June 5, 2014 at 5:51am

What if bus riders were as uptight as some bike riders?

"I feel that showing up on the bus without exact change is going to reflect poorly on all of us other bus riders.  It's no wonder drivers hate us so much."

This is supposed to be fun, right?

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