Tunney wants MORE cars in Lakeview...
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Barish on
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No matter how much additional parking is built it will still be difficult to park and difficult to drive to a baseball game. Wrigleyville is never going to have the parking that exists at US Cellular unless blocks of buildings are torn down. That is not going to happen. The choice to keep baseball in an urban milieu requires compromise. Additional parking is a must. This does not change the reality that it is much better to take a bus, train, bike etc to the game. It will ease some of the problem with excess cars. There are some who have to drive. When my dad was alive my brother and I drove to US Cellular to take him to a game. We dropped him off right in front so he could walk in with my brother. He was not equipped to get to the game any other way.
Saying that the more nightmarish the parking situation the better it will be is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If parking is nightmarish its bad for everybody whether they are in a car or not. If you are bringing in 25000 to 30000 or more people to the hood some of them are going to drive. If it becomes so nightmarish that you can no longer attract 25000 to 30000 or more perhaps you think about relocating your business. We then return to the real question. Is it appropriate to have baseball in a city neighborhood? If the answer is yes, the answer is yes to parking.
There can be incentives. Parking can, and should, be expensive. Illegal parking on streets can, and should, be expensive. The ease of walking out of the Addison L station to the game, or safely parking a bike for free nearby should be promoted. Still, parking is a necessity that comes with any large scale event whether it be a ballgame or a concert.
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Permalink Reply by Crazy David 84 Furlongs on
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A direct link to the Red Line is not realistic for either the hotel or the park. They are both more than a block away. Its certainly a complex question and there are few good answers. However, one of the "best" answers is to install a street car/light rail on Addison running from the lakefront to the Blue Line. This would link the Lakefront, red, brown and blue lines. It would provide a "fast" connection for folks riding the CTA that don't want to go downtown to make a transfer (for example O'Hare to Evanston). And it would provide good access to Wrigley Field AND access to the already established parking at DeVry.
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Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on
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Fast streetcar? Have you ever ridden a streetcar?
I am all for an E-W connection to the blue line from the lake, but a streetcar is probably not the best way to do that.
David crZven 10.6 said:A direct link to the Red Line is not realistic for either the hotel or the park. They are both more than a block away. Its certainly a complex question and there are few good answers. However, one of the "best" answers is to install a street car/light rail on Addison running from the lakefront to the Blue Line. This would link the Lakefront, red, brown and blue lines. It would provide a "fast" connection for folks riding the CTA that don't want to go downtown to make a transfer (for example O'Hare to Evanston). And it would provide good access to Wrigley Field AND access to the already established parking at DeVry.
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Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on
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What a load of crap. Parking is a necessity only if we lack the ability to imagine and create alternatives.
Tunney's archaic views on transportation were forged in his selfish desire to get the City subsidize his restaurant(s) by providing free parking.
David Barish said:No matter how much additional parking is built it will still be difficult to park and difficult to drive to a baseball game. Wrigleyville is never going to have the parking that exists at US Cellular unless blocks of buildings are torn down. That is not going to happen. The choice to keep baseball in an urban milieu requires compromise. Additional parking is a must. This does not change the reality that it is much better to take a bus, train, bike etc to the game. It will ease some of the problem with excess cars. There are some who have to drive. When my dad was alive my brother and I drove to US Cellular to take him to a game. We dropped him off right in front so he could walk in with my brother. He was not equipped to get to the game any other way.
Saying that the more nightmarish the parking situation the better it will be is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If parking is nightmarish its bad for everybody whether they are in a car or not. If you are bringing in 25000 to 30000 or more people to the hood some of them are going to drive. If it becomes so nightmarish that you can no longer attract 25000 to 30000 or more perhaps you think about relocating your business. We then return to the real question. Is it appropriate to have baseball in a city neighborhood? If the answer is yes, the answer is yes to parking.
There can be incentives. Parking can, and should, be expensive. Illegal parking on streets can, and should, be expensive. The ease of walking out of the Addison L station to the game, or safely parking a bike for free nearby should be promoted. Still, parking is a necessity that comes with any large scale event whether it be a ballgame or a concert.
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Yes. I have ridden a number of fast streetcars. The system in Zurich, for example, has many fast and efficient street cars. Would it take creativity? Sure. And it would limit traffic on Addison. But with proper right of ways and the like, stops at reasonable intervals and so forth, and street cars are just fine. Perhaps it should be similar to the Bilbao solution and have mostly one track, with passing stations. That would take out the least number of lanes on Addison which would make the drivers happy.
Its a better option than more bus service, and a full blown transit car is simply not feasible up that route. The best, perhaps only, good link option is light rail/street car. Remember its only 4 miles n length. At 20 MPH that's 15 minutes with stops for the entire line. at 30 MPH, that's 8 minutes plus stop time.
Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:Fast streetcar? Have you ever ridden a streetcar?
I am all for an E-W connection to the blue lien from the lake, but a streetcar is probably not the best way to do that.
David crZven 10.6 said:A direct link to the Red Line is not realistic for either the hotel or the park. They are both more than a block away. Its certainly a complex question and there are few good answers. However, one of the "best" answers is to install a street car/light rail on Addison running from the lakefront to the Blue Line. This would link the Lakefront, red, brown and blue lines. It would provide a "fast" connection for folks riding the CTA that don't want to go downtown to make a transfer (for example O'Hare to Evanston). And it would provide good access to Wrigley Field AND access to the already established parking at DeVry.
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Additional parking is a must. ... It will ease some of the problem with excess cars.
On the contrary, it will make the situation even worse because you will have more cars trying to cram into the same small area.
If parking is nightmarish its bad for everybody whether they are in a car or not.On the contrary, it could be great for everybody because the roads would not be clogged with cars, and people could get to the game by train, bike, or bus. People could also take taxis, which might clog the roads but would not require the parking that you claim is a necessity.
parking is a necessity that comes with any large scale event whether it be a ballgame or a concert.
Do you think a lot of New Yorkers drive to Madison Square Garden to see the Knicks? What about Chicagoans driving to Lollapalooza?
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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on
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Thank you!
Alex Z said:Additional parking is a must. ... It will ease some of the problem with excess cars.
On the contrary, it will make the situation even worse because you will have more cars trying to cram into the same small area.
If parking is nightmarish its bad for everybody whether they are in a car or not.On the contrary, it could be great for everybody because the roads would not be clogged with cars, and people could get to the game by train, bike, or bus. People could also take taxis, which might clog the roads but would not require the parking that you claim is a necessity.
parking is a necessity that comes with any large scale event whether it be a ballgame or a concert.
Do you think a lot of New Yorkers drive to Madison Square Garden to see the Knicks? What about Chicagoans driving to Lollapalooza?
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Permalink Reply by Michelle S on
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Please sign the petition if you haven't already. Providing more parking spaces makes parking cheaper (through competition) and more convenient to drivers, so it encourages people to drive instead of using other alternatives. Surface lots are horrendously deadening to a neighborhood, and multi-story lots can be just as horrible if they are dead blank space at sidewalk level. There are only about 80 home games a year, and on the other 275 days a year, the additional parking will stand empty. The Cubs should focus on encouraging fans to arrive via all these other means: walk, private bike, bike share, bus, El, or taxicab. While they're at it, they should definitely throw their support behind getting a streetcar on Clark Street from the Loop to Irving Park Road.
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Seating capcity for Madison Square Garden is just under 20,000. http://www.thegarden.com/faq.html
Seating capacity for Wrigley Field is just over 41,000. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrigley_Field
I see apple and oranges here.
New York City can be viewed as a cyclists utopia as its simply crazy to own or operate a car. Nowhere to drive, nowhere to park. The cost of vehicle ownership is prohibitive. The millions of people who live there in a much more dense area have no choice but to cope. Chicago is not the same city, even at its most congested.
We are on the same page in terms of wanting less motor vehicle traffic. We differ insofar as my eyes are open and I see that vehicles will be there and feel that something has to be done about them. I am not on the side of either the Cubs or the alderman. As a citizen, I think they ought to increase parking of all kinds if they are doing any significant renovation and expansion of the park.
I am willing to sign the petition if somebody can explain why this proposal is flawed outside of a general rant about why cars are bad and why nobody should ever drive.
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Thank you to everyone who has signed, and to Carl for posting this. When I signed a few days ago, there were only 20ish signatures, and now it's up to 94. Only 6 more to go to hit the goal of 100, so keep it going, ChainLinkers!
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Some people just think that a solution to every urban problem is a streetcar…
h' 1.0 said:Well, you're taken this from a rsignificant but conceivable expense for the developer to something a thriving metropolis can barely fund.
David crZven 10.6 said:A direct link to the Red Line is not realistic for either the hotel or the park. They are both more than a block away. Its certainly a complex question and there are few good answers. However, one of the "best" answers is to install a street car/light rail on Addison running from the lakefront to the Blue Line. This would link the Lakefront, red, brown and blue lines. It would provide a "fast" connection for folks riding the CTA that don't want to go downtown to make a transfer (for example O'Hare to Evanston). And it would provide good access to Wrigley Field AND access to the already established parking at DeVry.
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And you clearly live in a dream world. The Hotel is proposed for Clark and Addison. The Red Line Station is several blocks down Addison from the Hotel. Its not only not a conceivable expense, it is physically impossible. It crosses at least two streets and they City would certainly not allow a skybridge to be built across the front of Wrigley.
As for the Steetcar, its something that they city cannot afford NOT to do. This is a 4 mile line which connects all of the major El Lines, the Lakefront and a major civic site (Wrigley Field). Its a 280 million dollar project if mismanaged and a 160 million dollar project if properly managed. That's less than the proposed repairs to the ball park. If you want to reduce cars and give bikes a better chance, you need to make sure that you make it convenient for people to use something other than the car. O'Hare to Evanston by CTA? That's an el ride all the way into the City and back out again (2+ hours) or an El ride to Irving, schlepping onto an overcrowded Irving Park Bus, a 40 minute trip with waiting time, to the Red Line. A little faster, but a lot more troublesome. The Street car option STARTS at the end of the blue line.
But hey, everyone knows that the best way to promote bicycles is to act like a car nazi and insist that it is the ONLY viable option. Let's not repeat the mistakes that led to the prolongation of the Viet Nam war and realize that they way to win is to work within the system and provide options for all... yes even the cars.
h' 1.0 said:Well, you're taken this from a rsignificant but conceivable expense for the developer to something a thriving metropolis can barely fund.
David crZven 10.6 said:A direct link to the Red Line is not realistic for either the hotel or the park. They are both more than a block away. Its certainly a complex question and there are few good answers. However, one of the "best" answers is to install a street car/light rail on Addison running from the lakefront to the Blue Line. This would link the Lakefront, red, brown and blue lines. It would provide a "fast" connection for folks riding the CTA that don't want to go downtown to make a transfer (for example O'Hare to Evanston). And it would provide good access to Wrigley Field AND access to the already established parking at DeVry.
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