Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Duppie on March 25, 2013 at 1:57am

On the contrary.

Bike friendly cities don't need a Chainlink type forum. When everything from urban planning to liability laws, from childhood education to high gas prices is aimed at increasing the share mode of bicyclists, when we are an integral part of society, then we no longer have a need to meet and vent online.

Lisa Curcio 4.0 mi said:

The Chainlink!

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Permalink Reply by Julie Aberman (Hochstadter) on March 25, 2013 at 2:18am

During cubs games the racks at wrigley are packed. During a Dave Matthews concert there are almost none. So may depend on the fans of that said event.

h' 1.0 said:

I get a little thrill when I ride on the north side and see other cyclists too.

But sometimes it seems like it's two steps forward and two steps back.

I went to a show at the Riv last night with a full house and made arrangements with the person I was meeting there to meet at the racks on the other side of Broadway since I figured it would be hard to find bike parking by the entrance.... but not one other bike was to be found on any of the racks on either side of Broadway (there was one other when we came out.)

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Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on March 25, 2013 at 2:50am

Ah, I beg to differ.  No matter how integrated an activity, people with the same interests want a place/way to meet, and, sometimes, to vent and in today's society, online forums are often a most popular way to do that. The venting in an ideal cycling world might be less about the danger encountered while riding, but we humans always find something to complain about! ;-) 
 
Duppie 13.5185km said:

On the contrary.

Bike friendly cities don't need a Chainlink type forum. When everything from urban planning to liability laws, from childhood education to high gas prices is aimed at increasing the share mode of bicyclists, when we are an integral part of society, then we no longer have a need to meet and vent online.

Lisa Curcio 4.0 mi said:

The Chainlink!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Duppie on March 25, 2013 at 3:21am

Have you ever lived in a truly bike friendly city?

I did. I lived in numerous bike friendly cities in the Netherlands for the first 28 years of my life, including Groningen which a has a bicycle mode share of 60%. And no, that is not a typo.

In truly bike friendly communities biking is simply what people do to get around, and there is a remarkable lack of bicycling community in those places. (which is what the Chainlink is trying to create in Chicago).

Compare that to Chicago where we celebrate every breadcrumb protected bike lane the mayor throws at us. Chicago, where Complete Streets exist, but only on paper. Chicago, where 4 out of 5 pedestrian fatalities this year are caused by hit-and-run drivers. Chicago, where most of my co-workers think that I am a freak and shake their head warily when I show up in the office in the morning dress in bike clothes.

Clearly in Chicago there is a need for forums like the Chainlink, where we can commiserate and organize. But the Chainlink is only needed because Chicago is not a bike friendly city, and not, as you suggest, the sign of a bike friendly city

This article sums it up very well:

“Cycling is so much part of everyday life in the Netherlands that not many Dutch people give it a second thought, let alone recognize the ‘culture’ part of it. It’s that normal. As normal as water from the tap. It’s just there and we use it. And yes, the Dutch take it for granted. Which can be tricky with regards to advocacy, but on the whole it’s a very positive thing.”

Lisa Curcio 4.0 mi said:

Ah, I beg to differ.  No matter how integrated an activity, people with the same interests want a place/way to meet, and, sometimes, to vent and in today's society, online forums are often a most popular way to do that. The venting in an ideal cycling world might be less about the danger encountered while riding, but we humans always find something to complain about! ;-) 
 
Duppie 13.5185km said:

On the contrary.

Bike friendly cities don't need a Chainlink type forum. When everything from urban planning to liability laws, from childhood education to high gas prices is aimed at increasing the share mode of bicyclists, when we are an integral part of society, then we no longer have a need to meet and vent online.

Lisa Curcio 4.0 mi said:

The Chainlink!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on March 25, 2013 at 4:18am

Given that I have never lived in any other city, no I have not. You were blessed to grow up in Amsterdam, and have that perspective, but, as the author says: "In the world of everyday cycling there is no other place like it."

Yes, he goes on to say that the Netherlands was once like everywhere else when it comes to cycling and "Through trial and error, sustained efforts and a long-term vision the Dutch managed to reverse a downward trend and put bicycles back on the map & make them a viable part of our lives again".

I would love to see the day that we are like the Netherlands.  The author did not say how long it took  for the country to change, but I am sure it is a long way off in the U.S.  If you compare cities in the U.S., Chicago is moving in the right direction.  When I search for information on cycling in U.S. cities to which I am traveling and that I perceive to be less bike-friendly I do not find forums like the Chainlink.  By U.S. standards--probably not by world standards--I think our forum is a sign of bike friendliness.  It is not a sign of complete bike-friendliness.
 
Duppie 13.5185km said:

Have you ever lived in a truly bike friendly city?

I did. I lived in numerous bike friendly cities in the Netherlands for the first 28 years of my life, including Groningen which a has a bicycle mode share of 60%. And no, that is not a typo.

In truly bike friendly communities biking is simply what people do to get around, and there is a remarkable lack of bicycling community in those places. (which is what the Chainlink is trying to create in Chicago).

Compare that to Chicago where we celebrate every breadcrumb protected bike lane the mayor throws at us. Chicago, where Complete Streets exist, but only on paper. Chicago, where 4 out of 5 pedestrian fatalities this year are caused by hit-and-run drivers. Chicago, where most of my co-workers think that I am a freak and shake their head warily when I show up in the office in the morning dress in bike clothes.

Clearly in Chicago there is a need for forums like the Chainlink, where we can commiserate and organize. But the Chainlink is only needed because Chicago is not a bike friendly city, and not, as you suggest, the sign of a bike friendly city

This article sums it up very well:

“Cycling is so much part of everyday life in the Netherlands that not many Dutch people give it a second thought, let alone recognize the ‘culture’ part of it. It’s that normal. As normal as water from the tap. It’s just there and we use it. And yes, the Dutch take it for granted. Which can be tricky with regards to advocacy, but on the whole it’s a very positive thing.”

Lisa Curcio 4.0 mi said:

Ah, I beg to differ.  No matter how integrated an activity, people with the same interests want a place/way to meet, and, sometimes, to vent and in today's society, online forums are often a most popular way to do that. The venting in an ideal cycling world might be less about the danger encountered while riding, but we humans always find something to complain about! ;-) 
 
Duppie 13.5185km said:

On the contrary.

Bike friendly cities don't need a Chainlink type forum. When everything from urban planning to liability laws, from childhood education to high gas prices is aimed at increasing the share mode of bicyclists, when we are an integral part of society, then we no longer have a need to meet and vent online.

Lisa Curcio 4.0 mi said:

The Chainlink!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by David P. on March 25, 2013 at 5:23am

When my parents lived in Amsterdam in the late '60s, it was a typical European city for the time in that it was fairly car-centric. I believe that the changes in Amsterdam began after the 1973 OPEC oil embargo, but I'm not sure where I read that so I can't vouch for it 100%.

Lisa Curcio 4.0 mi said:

Given that I have never lived in any other city, no I have not. You were blessed to grow up in Amsterdam, and have that perspective, but, as the author says: "In the world of everyday cycling there is no other place like it."

Yes, he goes on to say that the Netherlands was once like everywhere else when it comes to cycling and "Through trial and error, sustained efforts and a long-term vision the Dutch managed to reverse a downward trend and put bicycles back on the map & make them a viable part of our lives again".

I would love to see the day that we are like the Netherlands.  The author did not say how long it took  for the country to change, but I am sure it is a long way off in the U.S.  If you compare cities in the U.S., Chicago is moving in the right direction.  When I search for information on cycling in U.S. cities to which I am traveling and that I perceive to be less bike-friendly I do not find forums like the Chainlink.  By U.S. standards--probably not by world standards--I think our forum is a sign of bike friendliness.  It is not a sign of complete bike-friendliness.
 
Duppie 13.5185km said:

Have you ever lived in a truly bike friendly city?

I did. I lived in numerous bike friendly cities in the Netherlands for the first 28 years of my life, including Groningen which a has a bicycle mode share of 60%. And no, that is not a typo.

In truly bike friendly communities biking is simply what people do to get around, and there is a remarkable lack of bicycling community in those places. (which is what the Chainlink is trying to create in Chicago).

Compare that to Chicago where we celebrate every breadcrumb protected bike lane the mayor throws at us. Chicago, where Complete Streets exist, but only on paper. Chicago, where 4 out of 5 pedestrian fatalities this year are caused by hit-and-run drivers. Chicago, where most of my co-workers think that I am a freak and shake their head warily when I show up in the office in the morning dress in bike clothes.

Clearly in Chicago there is a need for forums like the Chainlink, where we can commiserate and organize. But the Chainlink is only needed because Chicago is not a bike friendly city, and not, as you suggest, the sign of a bike friendly city

This article sums it up very well:

“Cycling is so much part of everyday life in the Netherlands that not many Dutch people give it a second thought, let alone recognize the ‘culture’ part of it. It’s that normal. As normal as water from the tap. It’s just there and we use it. And yes, the Dutch take it for granted. Which can be tricky with regards to advocacy, but on the whole it’s a very positive thing.”

Lisa Curcio 4.0 mi said:

Ah, I beg to differ.  No matter how integrated an activity, people with the same interests want a place/way to meet, and, sometimes, to vent and in today's society, online forums are often a most popular way to do that. The venting in an ideal cycling world might be less about the danger encountered while riding, but we humans always find something to complain about! ;-) 
 
Duppie 13.5185km said:

On the contrary.

Bike friendly cities don't need a Chainlink type forum. When everything from urban planning to liability laws, from childhood education to high gas prices is aimed at increasing the share mode of bicyclists, when we are an integral part of society, then we no longer have a need to meet and vent online.

Lisa Curcio 4.0 mi said:

The Chainlink!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 25, 2013 at 6:10am

Me thinks that this thread has taken a nasty turn from its intent...

Seems the OP was looking for a celebration of the things that are nice about biking in Chicago and ya'll have turned it into a festival of taking things for granted and sounding entitled.  Rather than wasting time and space here gripping about what we don't have, what places are better and how much there is still to do how about we celebrate what we do have?

Stop for a second and think about how spoiled we are here compared to a lot of other cities when it comes to biking.  Could it be better?  Could we be bike friendlier here as a city?  Yes, of course we could but there is no city anywhere in the world where the answer to those questions would not be yes.

Go ride a bike in Memphis, or Nashville, or St. Louis and let me know if you still want to complain about the bicycle infastructure and support we have here.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on March 25, 2013 at 6:30am

+1 but who are you and what have you done with the real notoriousDug?
 
notoriousDUG said:

Me thinks that this thread has taken a nasty turn from its intent...

Seems the OP was looking for a celebration of the things that are nice about biking in Chicago and ya'll have turned it into a festival of taking things for granted and sounding entitled.  Rather than wasting time and space here gripping about what we don't have, what places are better and how much there is still to do how about we celebrate what we do have?

Stop for a second and think about how spoiled we are here compared to a lot of other cities when it comes to biking.  Could it be better?  Could we be bike friendlier here as a city?  Yes, of course we could but there is no city anywhere in the world where the answer to those questions would not be yes.

Go ride a bike in Memphis, or Nashville, or St. Louis and let me know if you still want to complain about the bicycle infastructure and support we have here.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on March 25, 2013 at 7:54am

;)

Lisa Curcio 4.0 mi said:

+1 but who are you and what have you done with the real notoriousDug?
 
notoriousDUG said:

Me thinks that this thread has taken a nasty turn from its intent...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 25, 2013 at 10:04am

Sometimes I'm nice...

Lisa Curcio 4.0 mi said:

+1 but who are you and what have you done with the real notoriousDug?
 
notoriousDUG said:

Me thinks that this thread has taken a nasty turn from its intent...

Seems the OP was looking for a celebration of the things that are nice about biking in Chicago and ya'll have turned it into a festival of taking things for granted and sounding entitled.  Rather than wasting time and space here gripping about what we don't have, what places are better and how much there is still to do how about we celebrate what we do have?

Stop for a second and think about how spoiled we are here compared to a lot of other cities when it comes to biking.  Could it be better?  Could we be bike friendlier here as a city?  Yes, of course we could but there is no city anywhere in the world where the answer to those questions would not be yes.

Go ride a bike in Memphis, or Nashville, or St. Louis and let me know if you still want to complain about the bicycle infastructure and support we have here.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 25, 2013 at 10:17am

There is a difference between discussing the things that make other cities more cycle friendly than Chicago and saying Chicago is not cycle friendly.  

I think if you compare Chicago to the average city here or abroad we are pretty cycle friendly and it would be nice if people dwelled on that a little more.

This is why I never say anything positive.

h' 1.0 said:

I don't know Amanda but I would guess that she can speak for herself if she doesn't like the direction this thread has taken rather than waiting for big strong Dug to rescue her.

In this case you have people who have experienced "bicycle friendly" cities offering an informed opinion.

Never hurts to learn something from another's perspective.

notoriousDUG said:

Me thinks that this thread has taken a nasty turn from its intent...

Seems the OP was looking for a celebration of the things that are nice about biking in Chicago and ya'll have turned it into a festival of taking things for granted and sounding entitled.  Rather than wasting time and space here gripping about what we don't have, what places are better and how much there is still to do how about we celebrate what we do have?

Stop for a second and think about how spoiled we are here compared to a lot of other cities when it comes to biking.  Could it be better?  Could we be bike friendlier here as a city?  Yes, of course we could but there is no city anywhere in the world where the answer to those questions would not be yes.

Go ride a bike in Memphis, or Nashville, or St. Louis and let me know if you still want to complain about the bicycle infastructure and support we have here.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on March 25, 2013 at 10:28am

Too late.

notoriousDUG said:

[snip]

This is why I never say anything positive.

h' 1.0 said:

I don't know Amanda but I would guess that she can speak for herself if she doesn't like the direction this thread has taken rather than waiting for big strong Dug to rescue her.

[snip]

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