Critics say CTA favors profits over poor with new system (Trib Article)

The CTA was accused of putting the profits of its corporate partners ahead of the needs of poor people during a hearing Monday night on a new fare-payment system set to debut this summer. Jon Hilkevitch reports about it here.

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Permalink Reply by Juan Primo on March 12, 2013 at 7:00am

When has the CTA ever made a profit?

Permalink Reply by globalguy on March 12, 2013 at 10:01am

And actually, when exactly did the CTA get in the business of making money for corporations?  If only we had an alternative transportation advocacy group to answer these questions?

Juan Primo said:

When has the CTA ever made a profit?

Permalink Reply by Jeremy Mendelson on March 12, 2013 at 8:45pm

As a transit planner with experience in this stuff, I don't see a good enough reason for the Ventra card and "open payment" (using your credit/debit card at the farebox). It seems that the only good reason to switch is to remove the fare collection responsibility from CTA and start paying the banks to handle all of that. Transit agencies spend a lot of money on fare collection, which on the bus side often ends up being almost as much as they collect in fares.

It also makes sense to phase out the magnetic stripe Transit Card since the readers require a lot of maintenance. But if the Chicago Card is working, why not just allow people to put passes on that? If the motivation is to have one multi-agency fare card, why not just expand the Chicago Card machines to Metra and Pace? I guess it might be nice to pay with a debit card, or to use your CTA card at the supermarket, but it can't be worth reinventing the wheel just to remove one card from our wallets.

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on March 13, 2013 at 3:04am

It seems that the only good reason to switch is to remove the fare collection responsibility from CTA and start paying the banks to handle all of that.

That's how it looks to me, too.

Transit agencies spend a lot of money on fare collection, which on the bus side often ends up being almost as much as they collect in fares.

...which was a big motivator in the previous push to get as many riders as possible to use Chicago Card and Chicago Card Plus instead of cash or the disposable magnetic cards.  Speed of boarding and better reliability were factors, too.

It also makes sense to phase out the magnetic stripe Transit Card since the readers require a lot of maintenance.

And they tend to slow down boarding a lot.

But if the Chicago Card is working, why not just allow people to put passes on that? If the motivation is to have one multi-agency fare card, why not just expand the Chicago Card machines to Metra and Pace?

Good questions.  I've been wondering the same thing.  Wouldn't it be less expensive to make a software change and some modifications to the existing Chicago Card machines, and get more of those machines out there?

Permalink Reply by Tricolor on March 13, 2013 at 4:39am

Maybe there are some issues with IT (or more likely managers that control IT decisions) in other branches of the RTA that prevent the Chicago Card from being adopted.  My short experience consulting for Cook County showed me just what a mess of technical fiefdoms existed just within the juvenile court.

That makes me think.  I came up with the idea of a unified toll paying system 20 years ago that's now more or less implemented from Chicago to Boston and probably other places in between I haven't gone.  I wonder if anyone's considered a single source transit card that multiple cities (or transit companies) would use?

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on March 13, 2013 at 4:51am

Other than the fact that it would cost money for new or different technologies to put everyone on the same page this is a great idea. 

Something that works on Near-Field technology and could be implemented on a blind basis or linked to a bank card.   I know there are a lot of undocumented people out there who might be afraid of signing up for any service that might track them or require ID/credentials to buy into.

The nice thing about the current swipe cards are that they can be anonymous while still creating a unique user ID within the card itself to simply transfers from station to station and between the L and the bus.   A new swipe card can be bought with cash and used until it is depleted and either refilled or discarded and replaced with another.  

There probably is a way to do this with disposable NFC cards as the price comes down but I don't think it will be as cheap and disposable as the current swipe cards.

There has been talk of national ID's linked to driver's licenses and being able to link one's card to a debit/credit card and using that card for nation-wide bus/transit fares like you mention.  But I am a little uncomfortable with a government agency logging every trip I take as to where and when and keeping that in some database for gods-only-know to see.  With FOI requests being what they are it'd take something like the HIPAA-level oversight to keep any semblance of privacy.    And even that is abused.

I know that if I were an undocumented immigrant I'd be seriously freaked out by any transit solution that didn't allow for anonymous fares.   It'll pretty much strand a whole underclass of folks in our society and limit their mobility and use of public transportation. 

Tricolor said:

Maybe there are some issues with IT (or more likely managers that control IT decisions) in other branches of the RTA that prevent the Chicago Card from being adopted.  My short experience consulting for Cook County showed me just what a mess of technical fiefdoms existed just within the juvenile court.

That makes me think.  I came up with the idea of a unified toll paying system 20 years ago that's now more or less implemented from Chicago to Boston and probably other places in between I haven't gone.  I wonder if anyone's considered a single source transit card that multiple cities (or transit companies) would use?

Permalink Reply by Tricolor on March 13, 2013 at 6:09am

It can't be any more intrusive to privacy than the Chicago Card or EZPass toll network is.  And there's no reason an anonymous option can't be offered.  The only difference would be the point of sale; an automatic withdraw or charge versus a cash load at fixed locations.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on March 13, 2013 at 6:40am

The toll network is pretty terrible.

So far I've gotten by without hooking my credit card to it yet. I just buy the "gift" cards and add them manually to the transponder via the phone method (they don't let you do that online.)

If the card was anonymous and one could just add money at a pay station like the current swipe card I would call it a big improvement.   

I do not like taking my wallet out at the turnstiles and if I don't keep the card in my wallet I lose it.

As it is I am constantly misplacing the cards because I stuff them back into a random pocket and the next time i go to take the train I have to buy a new one.  Then I end up with multiple cards in my wallet and sometimes forget which card I used on the last trip and end up screwing myself out of transfer discounts because I use a different card at the next stop.


An NFC system would allow you to keep your card in your wallet and your wallet in your pocket as you brush your pocket against the reader. 

Permalink Reply by Mike Zumwalt on March 13, 2013 at 7:05am

When they order defective "new" red line cars. When they use un-wolmanized wood for the platforms, when they put gigantic flat screen tv's showing the time and looping advertisements.

Juan Primo said:

When has the CTA ever made a profit?

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on March 13, 2013 at 7:11am

I'm using the swipe cards you can buy at the stations for cash.  I thought you had to sign-up for the plus card and give them your address and ID and all that jazz.  Am I wrong?

Don't get me started on those big noisy energy-wasting flat-screen TV's showing ads.

I was freezing my sack off at a station a few weeks back listening to the HUGE cooling fan screaming away in 0-degree temps.  They must run ALL the time, needed or no. What is the carbon footprint of all those TV's?  They are totally useless you have to stare at them for nearly a minute before it tells you when the next train is coming.  Don't blink or you will miss it and have to wait another minute... 

h' 1.0 said:

Are you referring to the current CTA system?

I've been happily using a Chicago Card Plus for maybe 6 years, and I don't have to take it out of my wallet or out of my pocket at train turnstyles.



Mike Zumwalt said:

When they order defective "new" red line cars. When they use un-wolmanized wood for the platforms, when they put gigantic flat screen tv's showing the time and looping advertisements.


Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on March 13, 2013 at 7:56am

I seethe with despair at my Chicago Card Plus. I get it loaded with pre-tax funds about once a year ($30 covers me for ALMOST a year usually).

But, unless I'm missing something, I can't add my own funds to the card, so when it runs out I have to re-order the transit funds which invariably takes several weeks to go through. Why can't I add funds to the damn thing myself?

I also hate the fact that the only way to check one's balance is to log into some web site that i use exactly once a year and therefore of course forget/lose the login credentials.

There may have been technological reasons for having two different cards, but those should have just been fixed. Foisting all these separate cards which have essentially the same function on riders was a huge disservice.


h' 1.0 said:

Are you referring to the current CTA system?

I've been happily using a Chicago Card Plus for maybe 6 years, and I don't have to take it out of my wallet or out of my pocket at train turnstyles.

James BlackHeron said:

The toll network is pretty terrible.

So far I've gotten by without hooking my credit card to it yet. I just buy the "gift" cards and add them manually to the transponder via the phone method (they don't let you do that online.)

If the card was anonymous and one could just add money at a pay station like the current swipe card I would call it a big improvement.   

I do not like taking my wallet out at the turnstiles and if I don't keep the card in my wallet I lose it.

As it is I am constantly misplacing the cards because I stuff them back into a random pocket and the next time i go to take the train I have to buy a new one.  Then I end up with multiple cards in my wallet and sometimes forget which card I used on the last trip and end up screwing myself out of transfer discounts because I use a different card at the next stop.


An NFC system would allow you to keep your card in your wallet and your wallet in your pocket as you brush your pocket against the reader. 

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on March 13, 2013 at 8:01am

If the card was anonymous and one could just add money at a pay station like the current swipe card I would call it a big improvement.

With the current Chicago Card (not the Plus version), you can do that.

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