Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David Barish on October 22, 2012 at 7:11am

I think the discussion is really about new v. used.  As mentitoned above there is no question that below about $600 you will not get a bike you want to keep when buying new.  When looking used you can find very good machines on a budget if you know who you are dealing with and  what  you are buying. If you are buying new you really want to spend at least $600 depending on what you can part with and what you want to do with your bike.  For years I have ridden with a group that to paraphrase the Blackhawks ad line said that "old steel is nice" and sneered at those in matching kits and titanium bikes. I think we were unfair. If you have the scratch a new machine is nice. I recently did something I rarely do, bought a new bike.  I did not spend gobs on an 18 lb Walter Mitty Racer.  I dropped just under the amount in the original post on a bike that will be my commuter and everybike. Other than air, adjustments and lube I expect to as Dug said, ride problem free for a few years. For those who cannot do that, a good, reliable used machine can be found for significantly less. It will just take patience and time to find the fit both physically and  economically.

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Permalink Reply by Duppie on October 22, 2012 at 7:42am

I think Dan got it right. Person signed up with a generic name, asked a question in a vague and ambiguous manner, and hasn't been heard from since. Sounds like a troll...

In the mean time Dug and Clint are picking a fight with each other. What was the question again?

dan brown said:

this questions seems like a troll bait. I am reluctant to jump in...but here goes.

 

You can buy a bike cheap several places, but if you are looking at the price of a bicycle at a (locally owned shop to be specific), you are buying a lot more than a bicycle. You are buying a relationship where you want to give and receive good karma. This has come up repeatedly here : purchase a bike (and often certain things are negotiable (i.e. add-ons, swapping out some parts)) at a locally owned shop and the repairs are much more pleasant (quicker, sometimes easy adjustments are done free of charge). Walk into the same shop (for the first time) with a bike bought on-line and the experience may be very different. So far I have always purchased from shops that I like that are close to my house where I feel comfortable having them peform the repairs that I cannot do or choose not to.

 

But to back up a little bit - I'm not even sure what your point or question is.

"Several years ago" a bike was $400 and now they are 'a thousand dollars' ?

Do you have any knowledge of component groups (how they differ) and frame materials, etc.

so you can compare apples with apples ? Also - *when* you purchase a bike has a LOT to do

with the price. I bought my road bike from a local shop right before the owner (a friend) was

going to box it up and ship it back to the mfr (it was a previous year model and no one seemed to

want a 59cm Raleigh (everyone wanted Treks back then)). I ended up getting it for $1300 off

the list price (because he was too lazy to pack it up and ship it back). Timing seemed to

be everything in that case.

 

Clint gave some good advice above and I am sure others can and will too.

 

 

DB

 

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on October 22, 2012 at 7:48am

I don't think he is talking about used, if he is that is a whole other issue and not really germaine to the original post.

David Barish said:

I think the discussion is really about new v. used.  As mentitoned above there is no question that below about $600 you will not get a bike you want to keep when buying new.  When looking used you can find very good machines on a budget if you know who you are dealing with and  what  you are buying. If you are buying new you really want to spend at least $600 depending on what you can part with and what you want to do with your bike.  For years I have ridden with a group that to paraphrase the Blackhawks ad line said that "old steel is nice" and sneered at those in matching kits and titanium bikes. I think we were unfair. If you have the scratch a new machine is nice. I recently did something I rarely do, bought a new bike.  I did not spend gobs on an 18 lb Walter Mitty Racer.  I dropped just under the amount in the original post on a bike that will be my commuter and everybike. Other than air, adjustments and lube I expect to as Dug said, ride problem free for a few years. For those who cannot do that, a good, reliable used machine can be found for significantly less. It will just take patience and time to find the fit both physically and  economically.

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Permalink Reply by dan brown on October 22, 2012 at 7:55am

why do we need an original question ??? It's "VENT MONDAY" - the weather sucks, and there

is nothing good on TeeVee tonight (debate vs. bears game vs. game 7 of NLCS).

DB

p.s. there is never anything good on TeeVee...define "good"

Duppie said:

In the mean time Dug and Clint are picking a fight with each other. What was the question again?

 

 

 

dan brown said:

this questions seems like a troll bait. I am reluctant to jump in...but here goes.

 

You can buy a bike cheap several places, but if you are looking at the price of a bicycle at a (locally owned shop to be specific), you are buying a lot more than a bicycle. You are buying a relationship where you want to give and receive good karma. This has come up repeatedly here : purchase a bike (and often certain things are negotiable (i.e. add-ons, swapping out some parts)) at a locally owned shop and the repairs are much more pleasant (quicker, sometimes easy adjustments are done free of charge). Walk into the same shop (for the first time) with a bike bought on-line and the experience may be very different. So far I have always purchased from shops that I like that are close to my house where I feel comfortable having them peform the repairs that I cannot do or choose not to.

 

But to back up a little bit - I'm not even sure what your point or question is.

"Several years ago" a bike was $400 and now they are 'a thousand dollars' ?

Do you have any knowledge of component groups (how they differ) and frame materials, etc.

so you can compare apples with apples ? Also - *when* you purchase a bike has a LOT to do

with the price. I bought my road bike from a local shop right before the owner (a friend) was

going to box it up and ship it back to the mfr (it was a previous year model and no one seemed to

want a 59cm Raleigh (everyone wanted Treks back then)). I ended up getting it for $1300 off

the list price (because he was too lazy to pack it up and ship it back). Timing seemed to

be everything in that case.

 

Clint gave some good advice above and I am sure others can and will too.

 

 

DB

 

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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on October 22, 2012 at 8:00am

This is much more entertaining.  ;)

dan brown said:

why do we need an original question ??? It's "VENT MONDAY" - the weather sucks, and there

is nothing good on TeeVee tonight (debate vs. bears game vs. game 7 of NLCS).

DB

 

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Permalink Reply by Gene Tenner on October 22, 2012 at 8:39am

I suppose it depends on how you ride and what you want. I shelled out the extra moolah on my recumbent trike to ride throughout the winter without falling down when I hit unseen ice. However, the unseen benefit of complementing my photography addiction was a surprise. Then I gave up my car and saved $10,000 per year, making the trike investment a pittance compared to what I was saving each year. I have the perfect bike for me, and 'tis worth every penny.

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Permalink Reply by David Barish on October 22, 2012 at 9:23am

I have my glasses on and it appears that the original post boils down to "bikes cost too much." Perhaps I expanded on that but feel I was reasonably close to the thrust of the thread.  New bikes cost a lot more than used ones.  If he wants to spend about $400. He can buy a new piece of crap or a very good used machine. If he gets close to the $1000 that he complained about he can indeed get a nice new shiny bike.  That's what I did.  How is that?  Is it within the lines?

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Permalink Reply by Holly on October 22, 2012 at 1:34pm

Just because a bike is made in Asia doesn't mean it's junk or that it should be cheap. My vintage '80s MTB was made in Taiwan. It's pretty great. It's a (pre Trek) Gary Fisher. It's been converted to a commuter style bike with smoother, skinnier tires. It also has fenders and a rack. It's perfect that way.

 

My other bike is a mid-80s Trek road bike. I love it, too. The bike was probably built in USA, the steel is Japanese. I sometimes wish it had more modern shifting (instead of friction shifting) but overall, she's a great machine and I feel extremely confident riding my bike--enough to have had the frame repaired when it broke. I ride this bike daily and rather aggressively at times.

 

OP are you doing market research? None of the things you stated in your original post seem germane to a conversation about the price of bikes. Like it seems like you wanted to hear, "You should buy X bike that's X$ because it's great."

 

Are you looking for cheap? If so, you might try finding something used. Are you looking for new? You'll often have to pay more for a better, more reliable bike. Imo, a lot of over-generalizations are often made about bikes that made are in Taiwan. They're not necessarily inferior or made under inhumane conditions on the cheap. Some are (to be sure), but not all of them. Many of the better manufacturers (names you know that aren't big box store concerns) outsource to the Far East because there aren't a lot of North American or European manufacturers who are equipped to do the volume they might want.  And that doesn't necessarily mean it's cheap labor or junky production. Just MORE. Small builders who make things stateside are just that--small. They often can't often accommodate their own orders in a timely fashion, much less those from a bigger company. 

 

At the crux of the matter, I'm interested to know why your Gary Fisher isn't useful for "exercise." If you're thinking of cx racing, it seems to me you might as well start on a lower price point for a cx bike and then work your way up to a bike that you want if you find that your "exercise" routine works for you. Without knowing you, my guess is that your $400 MTB was not the thing you needed or wanted in the first place. (That happened to me. I made adjustments to my MTB and now I ride it all winter and in any inclement weather.) 

 

I probably should add that I'm a vintage clothing dealer. I ride older bikes. I really don't buy a lot of new stuff.  I like older furniture. I am a staunch believer that older stuff is often made better.  If you're set on a new bike, research, test ride, and save your money for a bike you love. 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on October 22, 2012 at 2:01pm

It all depends on how much you want to ride it.  A cheap big-box store is a fine bike if you are only going to ride it a couple times a year.   A $600 "new" bike is fine if you are only going to ride a couple times a week. It'll take a few tune-ups here and there to keep it going.

But if you are going to ride every day, putting a hundred miles a week in, you are going to need to spend some money to get a bike that isn't going to fall apart or take a trip to a mechanic every month to keep in tune.

Bikes can be lightweight, or they can be tough, but the more lightweight or the more tough you want to make it so that it can ride every day without needing constant trips to a qualified mechanic the more it's going to cost you to get something that is going to be rugged.   If you want a super-lightweight bike that put on thousands of road miles between tune-ups it's going to cost thousands of dollars.  Even a heavyweight tough everyday bike is going to cost a bunch of money too.

$1000 is the price of a TV set.  Can you really expect to purchase something new that costs less than that which will allow you to ride day after day and roll out thousands of miles without needing to be constantly adjusted?   You get what you pay for.    If you don't care about riding junk you are going to have to pay some money to get that.  You might be able to save some money by buying a more vintage bike that was high-end in its day but is forgotten by today's riders as a high-quality bike.  But just because something is vintage doesn't make it a good bike.  You have to know what you are dong to get quality vintage bikes.  

in the end there are no short-cuts.   Either you need to really know bikes to find vintage deals, or you are going to have to spend money to get modern tough reliable bikes.

There really is no such thing as a free lunch.   If you don't like that just buy a cheap big-box at walmart.  

if you buy something from Bikesdirect.com you also need to know what you are doing too.  Some of that stuff has low-end components on it.  Much of it poorly set up.  But if you know how to wrench you can get some massively crazy deals.   But if you buy BikesDirect you miss out on the expertise of your LBS.   That's worth something.  You better have some knowledge of your own or you are going to dive straight into the empty pool when you find yourself up the river without a paddle when things start going wrong. 

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Permalink Reply by Holly on October 22, 2012 at 2:27pm

I can't help but wonder if this poster is looking for people to do market research..."I don't get it...what the hell's going on?" You see, you're supposed to name the make and model of the bike that you bought that you like that you paid $X for. That will become a springboard for how to do that same thing cheaper. (Maybe even at Bikesdirect!) 

I used to have similar strategies for crowd sourcing things except that we didn't have the internets back in 1927.  I was a sales manager on the phone talking to sales reps who sold the stuff my company made along with similar stuff made by competitors. You can learn a lot when you act kinda dumb. I mean, how can this question be real? There are bikes that are hand built that cost a lot more than $1K. There are light weight racing machines made for more than just tooling around town that start at $4K. There are cheapie crap bikes from Wal-Mart for less than $3 hundo. To go from a $400 MTB to a $1K CX bike and wonder what to buy that's not a thousand dollars seems to me like fishing. Is the OP saying, what's less than $400 that's good? Or, is he saying, "Is there anything less than $1K that's any good for exercise?"

Real concerns that could or should be addressed by a good LBS might include many things;  "How often do you ride? Where do you ride (paved trails, streets, dirt --all of the above)? Do you want to haul stuff? Are you planning to use your bike for long distance rides? What's your aesthetic?" etc. 

Bikesdirect must be the target demographic or the demographic this poster wants to capture. I hope I speak for most of us here when I say that we at the Chainlink are not Bikesdirect people. 

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Permalink Reply by Legacy Frameworks on October 22, 2012 at 2:58pm

You folks are reading into this a little too far. 

I get asked this same essential question, in person, nearly every time I go out to an event. Why should I pay for X when Y is cheaper and does the same thing. This is not a marketing ploy, it is simple consumerism - Rob Young trying to get the most for the least, like all of us.

Just educate yourself as to exactly what the most and the least are to you. I like to turn to the chainlink for informed opinions, they are here, you just have to do a little wading to get to them.

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Permalink Reply by Holly on October 22, 2012 at 4:12pm

I stand corrected. The OP is an innocent naif who doesn't know why some things cost more than others. It is nice of you to entertain this question and rude and unfortunate that I read something else into it. 

So, Rob Young is just asking an easy question:

"Why do things cost more than other things?"

You've answered that @ Legacy with your concise cost break down of raw materials. Yet, I still don't get what Rob wants from *his* bicycle. I appreciate his concerns, but I'm not sure "why does it cost so much?" should be the question.

He's talking about a $400 MTB vs. $1000 cross bike for "exercise." They're both going to do it for him exercise wise.  Someone can talk about how much it costs to build a bike, but until we ask a potential buyer: "What do you want to do with your bike? How do you ride? When and where do you ride? What kind of style do you think of as being 'you'," there's never going to be a good fit. Rob may understand why things that are made cheaply aren't often as good as things that cost more money, but he's still not going to know what kind of bike *he* should have for exercise. Fwiw: I recommend an exercise bike--they are perfect for tonight's weather. (Just kidding.) 

It sounds as if his $400 Gary Fisher was a bit of a mistake he didn't necessarily need to make. He made it because even at the time, it seemed like too much money and he didn't know what kind of bike he might want. If more people looked at what they need and why they need it (and salespeople actually listened to that), I think buyers would be more likely to buy something that's appropriate for what they expect from a bike. Save for a new bike if it's not in your budget, or buy something comparable used that may require some research on vintage bikes. Ultimately--if you ride your bike all the time-- isn't it worth whatever you put into it be it $ or wrenching. 

Lastly--we all know that the qty of bikes each of us really *needs* at any given time is N + 1. 

 

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