Sun Times: "Two Wheel Trouble."

A little more focus on supposed animosity between drivers and cyclists than necessary, but otherwise decently-researched article if one can look past the little tweaks for max. sensationalism:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/14787906-418/two-wheel-trouble-b...

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Permalink Reply by Gene Tenner on September 7, 2012 at 9:36am

Bicycle, Pedestrian Collision is 3'd Campus Crash Involving Bicycles

NBC4i.com-14 hours ago
Police said they believe that both the pedestrian and bicyclist are students. The bicyclist ... In those crashes, bicyclists were hit by vehicles.
 

Ann Arbor crosswalk where bicyclist was hit will be moved, have ...

AnnArbor.com-Aug 19, 2012
This story has been corrected to show that the intersection of Washtenaw Avenue and Platt Road was not in the area where the speed limits ...
 

  • Blind Metro attorney hit by bicycle in NY

    The Detroit News-Aug 15, 2012
    Bernstein, a marathon runner, was walking in a pedestrian path, wearing bright colors, when the bicyclist hit him from behind. The cyclist was ...



David crZven said:

Yes.  San Francisco.   At an intersection at a bottom of a hill by a bicycle going 35 MPH through a Yellow Light.   Cities with Big Hills do allow bicycles to reach speeds not seen in Chicago.   And at 35 MPH a bicycle can start to get dangerous.   But when"s the last time you have seen a rider at sustained speeds of even 25 MPH in Chicago?  

Permalink Reply by Crazy David 84 Furlongs on September 7, 2012 at 10:01am

I am not sure what you are trying to "prove" with those articles.

The first two involve the same crash.   The bicycle hit the pedestrian that Jaywalked.    The person injured was the person violating the law.

The third involves a high bridge which produces many of the same issues as the hill.

The fourth involved a car hitting a bicycle in a cross walk. 

The fifth is an unfortunate accident.

Of course NONE of these accidents involved fatalities and NONE of them happened in Chicago.  Again, when was the last time that a Bicyclist hit and killed a pedestrian in Chicago?   (As I recall if was on the LFP quite a few years ago).   When's the last time that a Pedestrian struck and killed a person in a car or a bicyclist in Chicago?   When's the last time a car struck and killed a pedestrian or bicyclist in Chicago.  

Certain the others can happen, but they are statistical outliers.    That's why they make the news because they are so far from the norm.

Gene Tenner said:

Bicycle, Pedestrian Collision is 3'd Campus Crash Involving Bicycles

NBC4i.com-14 hours ago
Police said they believe that both the pedestrian and bicyclist are students. The bicyclist ... In those crashes, bicyclists were hit by vehicles.
 

Ann Arbor crosswalk where bicyclist was hit will be moved, have ...

AnnArbor.com-Aug 19, 2012
This story has been corrected to show that the intersection of Washtenaw Avenue and Platt Road was not in the area where the speed limits ...
 

  • Blind Metro attorney hit by bicycle in NY

    The Detroit News-Aug 15, 2012
    Bernstein, a marathon runner, was walking in a pedestrian path, wearing bright colors, when the bicyclist hit him from behind. The cyclist was ...



David crZven said:

Yes.  San Francisco.   At an intersection at a bottom of a hill by a bicycle going 35 MPH through a Yellow Light.   Cities with Big Hills do allow bicycles to reach speeds not seen in Chicago.   And at 35 MPH a bicycle can start to get dangerous.   But when"s the last time you have seen a rider at sustained speeds of even 25 MPH in Chicago?  

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on September 7, 2012 at 10:19am

Idaho Stop for Illinois! 

Permalink Reply by David Barish on September 7, 2012 at 11:17am

Frankly it works best when Red means stop for everybody. Period.  No question a car or truck can cause more mayhem on when they fail to stop.  However, plenty of problems can be caused by bikes and pedestrians. Pedestrians IMHO are the worst offenders.  The lemmings who just walk into traffic begin a cascading series of events or a Rube Goldbeg equation where the pedestrian is in the street and the bike suddenly brakes and the car stops suddently to avoid the bike and ....sombody downstream is in trouble.  I get it that bikes and pedestrians using discretion should be able to negotiate a lonely intersection that is red.  I have done it myself. Who is kidding.  I prefer the rule to stay the same and for me to be breaking the law if I do so. Its way better when we expect people to stop.  Everybody( regardless of their method of transportation) becomes a more rational actor. I used to dislike the red light cameras as a big brother intrusion that is essentially a cash grab. My opinion on this has changed.  As more and more cars know that big brother is watching and issuing citations more and more cars actually stop and take a look.  At present  only cars are getting tickets.  I'm not complaining.
 
David crZven said:

My Comment:

"Pedestrians responsible"?   I guess so, but that's really "car thinking".   A Car or Truck or Bus running a red light has wholly different consequences than a Bicycle or Pedestrian "running" a red light.   And they should be held to different standards.   When, do you recall, is the last time that a Pedestrian ran a red light and struck someone and hurt of killed them?   When was the last time a bicyclist ran a red light in Chicago and struck and killed a pedestrian.  The answer is that both are very rare events.  Normally, if someone is hit and hurt with a bicycle or pedestrian that failed to follow the rules, it is the person who failed to follow the rules.  If it is a car, the smaller vehicle (or pedestrian) is the one with the greater damage.    

I have had this discussion on the expired meter with many "Car Types".   The standards for Cars are different than for bicycles and the standard for pedestrians are different than for bicycles and cars.   Placing them all in the same "box" and expecting the same compliance rules is silly and inefficient.  

Rational Changes

Stop Signs mean STOP for cars.

Stop Signs mean YIELD for Bicycles 
Stop Signs mean modified YIELD for pedestrians

Traffic Signal

Red means stop for Cars and Bicycles

Red means Yield for Pedestrians

Amber means stop if not in intersection for cars.

Amber means stop for bicycles

Amber means yield for Pedestrians.

As for the 4000 pound bicycle.... I am big but I am not that big.  That's off by a factor well greater than 12...


Tricolor said:

Then again I saw a cab do roughly the same thing you describe on Jackson at Wabash during lunch today, which is rare compared to all the pedestrians that ramble across Wabash against the light.  Normally I'm quicker to consider pedestrians responsible based on what I see downtown.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on September 7, 2012 at 11:20am

If red means red for everyone then EVERYONE should be pedaling...

Permalink Reply by Tricolor on September 7, 2012 at 4:15pm

I'm not talking about blaming a pedestrian for getting hit by a car running a light or stop sign; that's kind of a given.  I'm talking about the number of jaywalkers and bikers that will cross in front of traffic that does not have a sign or signal.  I can understand your concept of 'car thinking' though I have to say I really don't agree with it at all since I walk, bike and drive and have enough experience with the specific advantages and limitations of all three when it comes to maneuverability, reaction time, right of way and the ability to violate all sorts of rules on foot or on the bike that I'd never even consider with a car if I can be sure I'm not going to cause trouble to anyone else, let alone take the chance of a crash.


David crZven said:

My Comment:

"Pedestrians responsible"?   I guess so, but that's really "car thinking".   A Car or Truck or Bus running a red light has wholly different consequences than a Bicycle or Pedestrian "running" a red light.

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