Hey Chainlink, know what I think is lame?

When a website that claims to be promoting local cycling in the city of Chicago has a banner ad for a site which is one of the many internet discount outlets that make it hard for local bike shops.

Way to go Chainlink, bravo.  Is the advertising dollar worth making things harder on the local shops here in Chicago?

Is this site about serving the local community or is it about being a profit center for it's owner?

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 1, 2012 at 10:05am

This is not me promoting Rapid Transit, this is me promoting local bike shops over online retailers and I have been well before I ever worked at one.

Here's the thing your local bike shop gets a pretty raw deal from people who forget, or take for granted, all that a good local bike shop offers them.  Things that people often take advantage of and then go buy somewhere else.  Example:

  • You are looking for a new bike, not sure if you need a 56 or 58cm frame you cruise on down to ye ole LBS and test ride some bikes.  After riding the bikes and talking with the sales people to ensure the proper fit of your new purchase you head on home and purchase your brand new bike on the internet to save some money. Know why that bikes cost 2-300 more at the LBS?  1. You are paying for the bike shop to stock the bikes for you to ride; that costs them money. 2. The sales people there who help you figure the fit out for you. 3. The fact that you are buying a bike assembled by a mechanic and not just sent to your house in a box.  Isn't that worth the extra money? Apply this mindset to pretty much any product a bike ship sells.

You're right; bike shops charge more for stuff than you can get it else where but what else do those places do for you?  Has an online retailer ever:

  • Helped make sure you ordered the right part?
  • Taken it back if it was wrong?
  • Given you small parts for free?
  • Done small adjustments on your bike for free?
  • Provided free air and lubed your chain for you?
  • Answered all you questions?

Bike shops do a lot of little things, try not to forget them when you choose where to spend your money.


Brendan said:

I really think this thread should be deleted.  It's such garbage on all accounts.  

It seems like some people want to put a halo around the phrase "local bike shop", while ignoring the reality that it is not some noble civic duty to go out of our way to support a business that often either a) doesn't deserve it b) does not make monetary sense for a number of consumers.  

As far as RT goes, maybe Dug is taking the Bill O'Reilly approach to promoting cycling and buying cycling gear.  It doesn't matter what you say, just how loud you say it.  Whatever works I guess.  

Permalink Reply by Juan 2-3 or more mi. on January 1, 2012 at 10:22am

Warm and fuzzy...

h' said:

Group hug!!

Permalink Reply by Jeff Markus on January 1, 2012 at 10:31am

The arguement here is pretty much a bitchfest. Local bike shops do get good press here, many of the LBS's that treat their customers right are recognized for that achievement and the positive aspects of the local economy is often bantied about in parts, labor and servicing discussions.

Julie has noit beaten us up over making ends meet for her LOCAL BUSSINESS, this website, and if she were a money driven entrepeneur she would be running ads from Performance, California Cycle and the plethora of web stores that do represent a major threat to the LBS. Her acceptance of ad dollars from a Wisconsin retailer (notice how I sidestep the whole WI is a neo-conservative sh*#hole arguement) which is dern near local itself might just be the dollars that keep the site from folding under the weight of its servers and equipment. Just as a LBS has capital expenditures and overhead costs so does a website. I have been a part of a couple of camera sites that have also gone thru growth pains due to their load of 'faithful' followers I hope that Julie maintains this site with an eye to the sensibilities of her constituents. I will be a strong supporter (unfortunately not in the financial area) and vocal defender regardles of the way she turns so long as the forum remains of and about the cyclists of Chicago.

Thank you Julie and may the New Year bring you continued success (and hopefully some monetary reparations for your work) while this site grows into a strong LOCAL advocate for riders to see, hear and speak about what is important to us...even if that is railing for the selfinterests of the moneygrubbing capitalist owners of thew LBS's...sorry Chris you just ended up as collateral damage in this dicussion, I hope both of your shops (interesting new location...hope it gains as loyal a following as the Wicker Park site) continue to provide a stable income for your family.

If either or any of the parties of this debate find need I hope we can all be supportive in any way we can be it as a customer or ADVERTISER so the services these LBS and sites continue to be available to Chicago Cyclists.

Jeff

The Chicagoan

Permalink Reply by Zoetrope on January 1, 2012 at 11:27am

Where's hustla da rabbit?

Juan said:

Warm and fuzzy...

h' said:

Group hug!!

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 1, 2012 at 11:59am

Competition is a good thing.  


Most everything comes from a long way off anyhow -it's just a matter of through what channels.  The bike shops are just mail-ordering their stuff through UPS just like the stuff that comes from Amazon.  Green-wise it is pretty much a wash regarding packaging and energy costs.

The local bike shop is adding value to deal that one might not get from Amazon, Niagara, or the other online places by giving you service.    If it REALLY is valuable to the buyign public then they will take advantage of the "deal" and be willing to pay a little bit more for it.  If it ISN'T really adding value then people are going to buy their stuff elsewhere -or online.  If the LBS is actually that much of a better choice then they should be able to compete on the value they are adding.  If not, then they don't deserve it.

I remember being at a LBS a few weeks ago when I was chatting with another customer who was looking to buy some cycling garment and attempting to get someone who worked at the place's attention.  He had to literally state (and I quote) "I really want to spend some money here today -could I get someone to take it?"  

I think if one is going to get mail-order service at the LBS one might as well just go get mail-order prices and avoid making 2 trips to the shop while you are at it...

Personally, I spend a few grand a year at both the LBS and online (I buy most of my stuff online through Niagara's Amazon site and am quite happy about the 3-day service they have to the Chicago area most of the time.  But I do hop over to some of the local shops to buy a few hundred dollars a year at a handful of LBS's on stuff I need right away and to help spread the wealth a litlle bit and give them a chance to WOW me.  They rarely do (see the above story.)  

It's a free world and a free market.  Being an accomplished mechanic myself also gives me a lot more autonomy from the LBS too.  For the most part I really don't like anyone else working on my machinery and working on bikes is pretty much the easiest thing to work on short of a wheelbarrow or a 2-wheeled cart -especially the vintage machinery I tend to gravitate towards.  It's not exactly rocket-science.  

Permalink Reply by Duppie on January 1, 2012 at 1:13pm

You make it sound as if online retailers are by definition evil and only exist to screw you out of your hard earned money and forget that some of these online retailers are run by passionate individuals.

Ever talked to Wayne @ TheTouringStore.Com? How about the guys at Dinotte Lighting? Most LBS in the Chcago area can only dream of providing that level of excellence in their service (pre- and post-sales) that these guys consistently deliver.



notoriousDUG said:

Has an online retailer ever:

  • Helped make sure you ordered the right part?
  • Taken it back if it was wrong?
  • Given you small parts for free?
  • Done small adjustments on your bike for free?
  • Provided free air and lubed your chain for you?
  • Answered all you questions?


Brendan said:

I really think this thread should be deleted.  It's such garbage on all accounts.  

It seems like some people want to put a halo around the phrase "local bike shop", while ignoring the reality that it is not some noble civic duty to go out of our way to support a business that often either a) doesn't deserve it b) does not make monetary sense for a number of consumers.  

As far as RT goes, maybe Dug is taking the Bill O'Reilly approach to promoting cycling and buying cycling gear.  It doesn't matter what you say, just how loud you say it.  Whatever works I guess.  

Permalink Reply by Michelle Gregorek on January 1, 2012 at 1:19pm

Very good point Duppie.  In fact, if I had a brick and mortar retail shop I would ALSO have an on-line presence.   Happy New Year everyone!  (There...there is my warm and fuzzy.)

Duppie said:

You make it sound as if online retailers are by definition evil and only exist to screw you out of your hard earned money and forget that some of these online retailers are run by passionate individuals.

Ever talked to Wayne @ TheTouringStore.Com? How about the guys at Dinotte Lighting? Most LBS in the Chcago area can only dream of providing that level of excellence in their service (pre- and post-sales) that these guys consistently deliver.



Permalink Reply by Gene Tenner on January 1, 2012 at 1:39pm

Fox News will take advertising from Democrats. The Tribune accepts advertising from the Sun Times. One TV channel will run advertising on another channel. Accepting advertising does NOT MEAN AN ENDORSEMENT. A Chainlink ad gives us one more opportunity to choose. Gimme more.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 1, 2012 at 1:58pm

I also have to agree with this.  Another shop I really like is  Peter White Cycles -They have a great page on Bicycle Lighting Systems and carry stuff that you really can't find anywhere else in the USA like the Spaninnga Lights.

 

I guarantee that if you go into an LBS they will steer you solely to the products they have on the shelf and poo-poo any other options.  Seriously, I don't really think there are ANY LBS's out there pushing dyno-hub systems much less carry many decent dyno systems or components.  This alone is one of the many reasons I prefer buying stuff online because the LBS's in Chicago do not really cater to such things.   Is it because there isn't much demand or because they just don't supply anything -chicken or egg?  

Duppie said:

You make it sound as if online retailers are by definition evil and only exist to screw you out of your hard earned money and forget that some of these online retailers are run by passionate individuals.

Ever talked to Wayne @ TheTouringStore.Com? How about the guys at Dinotte Lighting? Most LBS in the Chcago area can only dream of providing that level of excellence in their service (pre- and post-sales) that these guys consistently deliver.




Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on January 1, 2012 at 2:48pm

Well said.

h' said:

In the future Chicago of my dreams, there's a bike shop at least in every neighborhood, if not every few blocks, just like there are gas stations now. 

I woud like to see all of us do our best to support local bike shops when feasible.

I agree with the sentiment that it would be ideal if, given that there's been a commitment to making thechainlink.org work as a for-profit enterprise, it were possible to sustain the endeavor with only support of local Chicago businesses.

There's no law says that that anyone who rides a bike has to look at the big picture or consider how their financial decisions affect the future cycling landscape, but I would very much like to see a greater percentage of us doing so.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 1, 2012 at 3:01pm

I guarantee you're wrong.  I can't speak for other shops, or even other people, but I am more interested in selling people what they want regardless of it being on the shelf or not; the shop gets money in it's pocket either way.  I would be interested to hear what shops, if any, you have had that actual experience at vs, just assuming all of them would.  In fact I can think of 3 shops, outside the one I work at, that would be happy to sell a dyno-hub.  Personally I would never push anyone away from a dyno-hub, mostly because I like them but also because it's usually more money than regular lights.

Shops don't stock them because there is low demand so shops don't want to stock what is a fairly expensive item  In fact very few people even inquire about them at all let alone express an interest in them.  Shops tend to bring in new stock items based on special order sales or customer inquiry.  You want to see dyno-hubs in shops you need to go to shops and ask for them and buy them.

James BlackHeron said:

I guarantee that if you go into an LBS they will steer you solely to the products they have on the shelf and poo-poo any other options.  Seriously, I don't really think there are ANY LBS's out there pushing dyno-hub systems much less carry many decent dyno systems or components.  This alone is one of the many reasons I prefer buying stuff online because the LBS's in Chicago do not really cater to such things.   Is it because there isn't much demand or because they just don't supply anything -chicken or egg?  




Permalink Reply by Matty Matt Matteo on January 1, 2012 at 4:23pm

+1 I think it's great that the chainlink site exists and is as good as it is. This is a trollish thread.

The support your LBS mantra, down with the internet store ad criticism is backwards. Would you rather keep this site free to use and see some ads, or not have this site work at all?

Besides many local bike shops are over rated and a business model based on hoping for customer pity should be allowed to die. That said, some local shops are great, but many just want to sell what they have in stock at a higher prices whether or not it's the best choice or right size for their customer, and their supposedly valuable advice and answers to questions may be questionable. If I knew a LBS that I liked I would use them as much as possible, but I wouldn't blindly choose any LBS over buying online.


Brendan said:

I really think this thread should be deleted.  It's such garbage on all accounts.  

It seems like some people want to put a halo around the phrase "local bike shop", while ignoring the reality that it is not some noble civic duty to go out of our way to support a business that often either a) doesn't deserve it b) does not make monetary sense for a number of consumers.  

As far as RT goes, maybe Dug is taking the Bill O'Reilly approach to promoting cycling and buying cycling gear.  It doesn't matter what you say, just how loud you say it.  Whatever works I guess.  

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