Toyota's accelerator recall...and our lives<u>

Recent articles are beginning to blame Toyota's accelerator problems and mass recalls, on the confusing increase in technology of cars in general...drivers just cannot shut them off!

...the problem may be deeper than just...mat entrapment of accelerator pedals. [Drivers are] unable to shift the car into neutral or switch off the engine, some of the typical things a driver would do during unintended acceleration.

To switch off the...Lexus' engine while driving [you] would have had to
press and hold the "Stop/Start" button for three seconds, an action
that is not obvious and could be difficult to accomplish while swerving
through traffic at high speeds. And the Lexus features a shifter that
follows a slightly twisting path rather than sliding directly fore and
aft.The Lexus shifter is far from the most confusing on the market. That title is up
for grabs among Toyota's hybrid models and the latest models from
Mercedes-Benz and BMW....

While biking south on Halsted in the bike lane, I had a northbound car, apparently out of control, swerve all the way across the street directly at me at a high rate of speed. At the last moment, I made a sharp left turn in front of the oncoming car that continuted past me on the right. Fortunately no other cars were nearby, and the driver apparently got the car under control in the next block.

But as the above article points out, with the increase in complexity of car controls, we can look forward to more out-of-control cars. My maneuver was performed without thinking; it could have been suicide. I'd like to have a better plan. Does anyone have any suggestions how to avoid out-of-control cars when on a bike?

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on February 19, 2010 at 4:24am
I find it interesting how many bike people I meet who also like British cars...
Permalink Reply by GabeW (not the other Gabe) on February 19, 2010 at 4:29am
It balances it out; pedal the bike, push the car. Don't want to neglect the upper body.

notoriousDUG said:
I find it interesting how many bike people I meet who also like British cars...
Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on February 19, 2010 at 9:00am
As someone who has owned both British cars and motorcycles that statement at first made me laugh, then it made me kinda sad...


GabeW (not the other Gabe) said:
It balances it out; pedal the bike, push the car. Don't want to neglect the upper body.

notoriousDUG said:
I find it interesting how many bike people I meet who also like British cars...
Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on February 19, 2010 at 12:03pm
Don't be sad. The new Triumphs keep all their fluids on the inside and the retro models look just about as cool as the old ones.
Permalink Reply by Steven Vance on February 19, 2010 at 1:55pm
Thank you for your comments. I didn't know that about the Airbus plane or the common mechanical and electronic linkages in cars.

Yahoo! News had on its front page for a couple days, "More scrutiny being paid to vehicle electronics."

More scrutiny needs to be heaped upon the humanoids behind the steering wheel and pedals.
Permalink Reply by Jessica on February 20, 2010 at 3:36am
You do realize that the majority of drivers out there at this point have never turned a non-powersteering car, or stopped a car with the manual brakes, right? Sure, shut off the car, and now the steering is stiff and little poopsie in the driver's seat has NO CLUE what to do. Let's practice the neutral drop only, kthx.

Oh, and if you're going to practice neutral drops over and over, ya know, just in case, please take out insurance on your transmission specifically.

I guarantee you could put me in ANY car, and I could start and drive it from the get-go. You're making this WAY harder than it really is. Learning the ins-and-out of a car, such as the bluetooth, the information screens, the personal settings, sure, bust out your manual. But I'd like you to google images of even the most top end cars, and look for the essentials on how to drive it. Shifter, gas, brake, on, and the steering wheel. Mission accomplished, you can drive the car.

You know, with all these 'computer controlled monsters', I think the blame may be pointed in the wrong direction. You see, I have a '99 Camaro, Z28, 6 speed manual. Admittedly more electronics than I'd like, but I like the feeling of a stick. It gives you more control. That being said, do you know how many times I've missed a gear? Countless. It is 100% my fault. Do you know how many times I've gotten in a rush powershifting and ground the shit out of a gear? Countless again. (missing gears while powershifting generally costs me money. grr. lol) Those computers NEVER miss a gear. That's the problem with racing them. While I can ALWAYS hook better than they can, they ALWAYS can shift better than I. Flawless, everytime. I wish I could claim the same for myself.

The problem is 99% of the time driver error. If these 'computer controlled monsters' were so dangerous, no one would drive them. You admitted to the increase in reliability, so I'm sure you acknowledge that. I think your thread title is what is making people believe that you think otherwise. =)
Permalink Reply by Alan Matejka on February 20, 2010 at 4:06am
I think most of the surprise acceleration is driver error. pressing both brake and gas (not realizing the gas). I was once almost run over by a vw rabbit at a convenient store. The front wheel drive Audi 5000s from 1984 had this very narrow pedal arrangement too. I have the 67 Chevy Impala in my garage as my father purchased it new, with manual steering and manual brakes. Try parallel parking that. Power steering is a lot harder with the motor off, than the old manual systems because of gear ratios. The pedals are also much further apart, making it nearly impossible to step on both. I also like the old Brittish cars. After working in a Jaguar service department for 14 years, I like the old ones way better. My cup with wd-40 and water is long gone.
Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on February 20, 2010 at 4:43am
I used to know someone who was an accidental victim of that Audi 5000s pedal arrangement. She accidentally drove her car through the wall of her garage, over the 3 foot dropoff behind the garage and down the lawn towards the lake. Fortunately the beach sand stopped the car before it went into submarine mode. The car was trashed. She did not buy another Audi.

Alan Matejka said:
I think most of the surprise acceleration is driver error. pressing both brake and gas (not realizing the gas). I was once almost run over by a vw rabbit at a convenient store. The front wheel drive Audi 5000s from 1984 had this very narrow pedal arrangement too.
Permalink Reply by Jessica on February 20, 2010 at 5:06am
CRAP I totally forgot about that!!! I have used oil at a buddy's place. I will set that up this weekend. Was your cup around sun ever?

Alan Matejka said:
I think most of the surprise acceleration is driver error. pressing both brake and gas (not realizing the gas). I was once almost run over by a vw rabbit at a convenient store. The front wheel drive Audi 5000s from 1984 had this very narrow pedal arrangement too. I have the 67 Chevy Impala in my garage as my father purchased it new, with manual steering and manual brakes. Try parallel parking that. Power steering is a lot harder with the motor off, than the old manual systems because of gear ratios. The pedals are also much further apart, making it nearly impossible to step on both. I also like the old Brittish cars. After working in a Jaguar service department for 14 years, I like the old ones way better. My cup with wd-40 and water is long gone.
Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on February 20, 2010 at 5:29am
Nothing revolutionary about the Airbus controls?

Really?

Go out, buy a clue and stop talking about things you have no idea about!!

The A320's fly by wire controls where a completely new idea at the time and not only revolutionized commercial aircraft control systems. Everyone else was caught playing catch up to their systems. However their controls where not exactly popular when introduced because no one trusted them and they where plagued maintenance issue because people looked to the electronics/computers every time there was a problem rather then trouble shoot them correctly. As for improving reliability you could not be more wrong, take it from somebody who worked on them.

You also have little to no idea when it comes to control systems and how they work and almost no idea about the actual systems on a car so do us a favor and stop talking like you know something when you clearly don't!

FYI, a cars brakes are not a hydraulic control they are a manually controlled, air (vacuum actually) assisted, hydraulic system.

'Electronic' controls still use servo motors, there is no way around them and there is no 'electrical' system in use that does not have some kind of microprocessor control system in it. Yes, some are more complex but almost any electronic control in general, and all of them in cars, have a micro chip brain.

I travel and rent cars all the time and I have no issues figuring them out. It's not an issue of the cars being confusing; I have yet to drive a car, or operated a piece of machinery, I could not have figured out in a few minutes. The issue is that people are not good at reacting to panic situations and you are never going to do anything about it unless we invest billions to intensive training programs. Cars are not going out of control more, there are just more cars.

Clark said:
...More scrutiny needs to be heaped upon the humanoids behind the steering wheel and pedals....

There's nothing revolutionary about the Airbus' control systems; ever since the invention of the wheel man has had to develop increasingly sophisticated methods to control his machines...and each step has improved reliability:

-- Mechanical controls: push-rods, cables and levers...as we have on our bikes
-- Hydraulic controls: tubes filled with fluid that activate mechanical switches...like a car's brakes
-- Electrical controls: servo motors and solenoids that activate mechanical switches
-- Electronic controls: billions of silicon switches activated by electronic mini-circuits only a couple of atoms thick

You're right Steven, it is the human factor that is the weak link now. But as the article points out car controls are becoming non-standard. No longer is it possible to borrow someone's BMW or Lexus without spending an hour studying the owner's manual, locating ALL the controls, and practicing emergency evolutions.

The last time you rented, or borrowed a car...did you practice shifting into neutral while driving a couple times? Just in case...? Did you practice turning off the engine while driving...just in case? If not, please do this next time. Because I'm just ahead of you on a bike...and I want to make sure you know how to drive that computer-controlled monster as you come up behind me.
Permalink Reply by Alan Matejka on February 20, 2010 at 5:40am
There is no sun. the garage is heated to 55-60.

Jessica said:
CRAP I totally forgot about that!!! I have used oil at a buddy's place. I will set that up this weekend. Was your cup around sun ever?

Alan Matejka said:
I think most of the surprise acceleration is driver error. pressing both brake and gas (not realizing the gas). I was once almost run over by a vw rabbit at a convenient store. The front wheel drive Audi 5000s from 1984 had this very narrow pedal arrangement too. I have the 67 Chevy Impala in my garage as my father purchased it new, with manual steering and manual brakes. Try parallel parking that. Power steering is a lot harder with the motor off, than the old manual systems because of gear ratios. The pedals are also much further apart, making it nearly impossible to step on both. I also like the old Brittish cars. After working in a Jaguar service department for 14 years, I like the old ones way better. My cup with wd-40 and water is long gone.
Permalink Reply by Jessica on February 20, 2010 at 5:43am
If you tell me that a 1960 car is more reliable than a 2009, I'll give you the 1960, I'll take the 2009, and we'll see who gets to California first. =) Cars are more reliable now-a-days. Perhaps it is the warning lights and annoying beepers that tell people when to do stuff, but regardless. They are more reliable.

Now, when you want to modify stuff, the computers and electronics are SUPER annoying.

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