Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jim Reho on May 4, 2016 at 10:50am

I have no problem with electric scooters, which is what this is.  It goes even a step beyond other "e-bikes" (an oxymoron), in that no pedaling whatsoever is required.  Just look at the video.  No one is going to go out and decide, "Hey, this is a great day for trying to pedal my bike with the 17-pound wheel!  And I love the extra resistance from the drive wheel!"  No one.  This is just a scooter pretending to have some relationship to a bicycle.  In reality, it will seldom, if ever, be propelled by actual human muscles, not even partially.

Again, people are welcome to have their motor scooters.  But, and again I'm referencing the video, motor scooters do not belong on bike paths, not any more than a Vespa.  The only difference is that the Vespa might be a little faster and louder.  Bike paths are for bicycles.  I do not want to be on a bike path with people who are only pretending to have bicycles.  I imagine that 17-pound wheel packs quite a wallop when it hits you at 20 miles an hour.

I think the real truth is that people are always looking for the easy way out.  I will admit to being one of them.  Riding a bicycle requires actual physical exertion.  It takes energy.  It's not like being in a car.  Sometimes it's a bit of a struggle.  Those qualities contribute a great deal to the cycling experience.  What this product creates, and what "e-bikes" are, is faux-bikes.  Things that look like a bicycle, but really aren't.  Especially when you don't have to pedal at all.  So people can pretend they're cycling while in fact all or most of the work is being done for them.  The American way, in other words.  Bicycle manque.  

I can see utility in scooters for people with disabilities, people with long commutes, and people who just don't want to pedal.  Of course.  All are welcome.  Just keep them on the roads with the other motor vehicles.

  

 

Permalink Reply by Tom A.K. on May 4, 2016 at 7:09pm

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140409/downtown/e-bikes-merge-int...

I don't understand why you would have such a revulsion towards E-bike cyclists. According to the current laws here they have the right to use the bike lanes.

I've been cycling most of my life since the age of about 8. I am now close to being considered a mature near senior. I am a 'bicycle purist' at heart, but I can see the benefits of an E-bike as I grow older.

I've encountered more than enough E-bikers in my time and I've never felt revulsion towards them like they didn't belong. They are simply just transportation, greener than a BMW x5 SUV.

What's the big gripe with the 17-pound wheel? With an E-bike the added weight will be somewhere. On my MTB right now, the total mass weight in motion is 256 pounds, (MTB-45lbs., Me-205lbs., bag-6lbs.) Hitting you with my with my 256 pounds of pedaling motion at 20 mph will feel no different if about a dozen pounds are subtracted.

Your negative attitude towards E-cycling is not necessary. It's only transportation and we all do have to share the road.

Permalink Reply by Tom A.K. on May 4, 2016 at 7:20pm

http://cycloculture.blogspot.com/2011/04/should-your-next-bicycle-b...

Excellent blog post from Ed Benjamin, E-bike expert, speaking about E-bike culture and 'bicycle purists'.

Permalink Reply by Tom A.K. on May 5, 2016 at 5:56am

http://www.vancourier.com/living/seniors/urban-senior-85-year-old-d...

Permalink Reply by Jim Reho on May 5, 2016 at 9:35am

It's a bit extreme to characterize my attitude towards ebike riders as revulsion.  I generally save  that for politics.  As I've said before in other posts, bike-mimicing scooters have their place, especially the ones that at least require some pedaling (unlike the technology in the article you cited).  You just can't call something that runs on electricity, has a speed control, and doesn't require any pedaling a bicycle.  Something like that has pedals in large measure just so it can qualify to intrude upon the bikeways.  It's not realistic to think that many people will actually be moving those 17-pound wheels with their feet.  I've seen plenty of people on ebikes.  I have yet to see one cruising around without the electricity on.  You can tell from the noise they make.  Also, I'm sure from reading many of your posts that you're an extremely responsible and experienced cyclist who doesn't go around hitting people.  But when I've been hit by other cyclists, usually they've gone flying off their bike, too.  I'm not having to deal with their weight.  The 17-pound-wheel bike is going to be about twice as heavy as a typical road bike, and that weight is what will be damaging me and my bike long after the other rider has been unhorsed.  Plus, depending on the exact technology, the bike with that wheel may well be propelling itself forward on electric power even after its rider is gone.  There's a lot of centrifical force in a 17-pound powered wheel.

Motor scooters belong on roads with other motorized vehicles.  I don't need to be on the bike path with some wannabe cyclist who thinks it's really cool that his vehicle can reach 20 MPH in six seconds without him even trying.  I agree that we all have to share the road.  But only actual bicycles should have to share the bike path.  This is not to denigrate motor scooters.  I don't look down on cars because they can't (or at least shouldn't) go on bike paths.  Everything to its proper place.

In any event, I think your side will prevail on this point.  It's already happening.  I'm sure life will go on and I will adapt.  It's more than conceivable that I will come to agree with you, as long as a peaceful equilibrium can be accomplished.  I'm a biker, not a fighter.    

     

Permalink Reply by V W on May 5, 2016 at 2:36pm

For the record I agree with both of you. I agree with Jim with respect to E bikes that aren't really designed to be pedaled and really only have the pedals for legal purposes to evade regulation as a motor scooter (there's one I saw that is over 120lbs and looks like a motor scooter not a bike). I agree with Tom concerning E bikes that are essentially bikes, don't go over 20mph, and kick in once you pedal, not by simply pressing a button.

That's a gross oversimplification but the point is at some point something becomes more like a motor scooter than a bike. But I wouldn't put all E-bikes in that category.

Permalink Reply by Juan 2-3 or more mi. on May 5, 2016 at 4:36am

E-bikes, much better than those annoying lawnmower engine bikes.

Permalink Reply by V W on May 5, 2016 at 4:53am

This. I've seen them lumped together with the derision the gas powered ones get- but E bikes are quieter and more likely to have a rider who is pedaling in my experience.

Permalink Reply by Juan 2-3 or more mi. on May 5, 2016 at 12:47pm

Yes... pedaling, cussing out a dead battery.

It be nice to see someone develop a commercially available flywheel powered wheel.

Perhaps a compressed air motor attached to the flywheel.

Permalink Reply by V W on May 5, 2016 at 2:26pm

Or pedaling with a slight boost from a non dead battery. Not every E-bike has an option to run purely off the battery.

Permalink Reply by Tricolor on May 5, 2016 at 5:51am

I guess its easier than building a wheel with a hub motor, figuring out how to control it and connect a battery, but this solution looks kind of complicated.

Permalink Reply by Yasmeen on May 6, 2016 at 3:24am

I agree with Jim - a 17 lb wheel is very concerning. The combination of speed and weight could make a collision very dangerous. 

There are a lot of different types of "ebikes" so I think it's tricky to lump them together. Initially, I definitely had a negative opinion about them - as if they are the cigarette of biking (they aren't). Now that I've done a little research, I learned there are some valuable applications for the eBike - we covered a lot of them when we reviewed the Faraday eBike. It is clear that bike is incredibly well made and you have to pedal in order to move forward. You can't just flip a switch and coast. 

The main applications for eBikes that I appreciate are the aid for a super long commute and people with physical disabilities or chronic health issues or injuries that would love to get back on a bike to ride with their friends and loved ones. I think there are some valid reasons to ride an eBike. 

With regards to collisions, I would also point out the weight of the Divvy concerns me as well. Many of those riders are on the lake front path, spacing out (looking anywhere but the path), switching lanes without looking, and generally riding dangerously. When on my carbon road bike, I am very aware those heavy bikes could easily send me flying so I call out and leave lots of space to pass Divvy riders. I really appreciate how Divvy bikes are getting more people to think of transportation differently but when I see them on the path, I can't help feeling the need to be cautious. Not every Divvy rider fits this description e.g. I've been dropped by a speedy guy flying North on Damen on a Divvy as he commutes home but there is a demographic that seems less present when they ride those bikes.

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