Is It OK To Kill Cyclists? (NY Times)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/opinion/sunday/is-it-ok-to-kill-c...

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Permalink Reply by Juan Primo on November 9, 2013 at 12:18pm

Lots of personal anecdotes, no conclusion except be a good driver and a good cyclist.

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Permalink Reply by Bob Kastigar on November 10, 2013 at 6:01am

"... although for now I’m sticking to the basement and maybe the occasional country road."

Not good; makes one fewer bike on the streets to make motorists aware that bikes are on the road.

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Permalink Reply by in it to win it 8.0 mi on November 11, 2013 at 2:50am

why, of course it is...

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Permalink Reply by Madopal (16.5 mi) on November 11, 2013 at 5:37am

Here's my beef.

So here’s my proposal: Every time you get on a bike, from this moment forward, obey the letter of the law in every traffic exchange everywhere to help drivers (and police officers) view cyclists as predictable users of the road who deserve respect.

Ok, I've wanted to get into the whole stop/Idaho stop discussion for a while. There are three major reasons I don't think cyclists should treat every stop sign as a stop:

1) Cyclists are not cars, and any collision, should it happen, between a slow moving cycle and anything else, isn't the type that needs such control

2) Cycling needs to have function. Cars get annoyed at cyclists on stop sign laden streets, because they see the cyclists keeping up or going faster. The average speed of any vehicle is limited by constant stops. So, a cyclist on a street treating stops as yields is roughly the same average speed of car on same street, stopping every block. However, if a cyclist has to stop, they average down to the speed of a pedestrian. Cycling loses much of its utility at that point. Crazy speed isn't the objective of riding, but making a 15-20 minute walk into a 5 minute trip to the grocery store is a big deal, and stop signs ruin that.

3) To wit: cars have arterial street options with controlled signals to avoid streets with stop signs every block. Cyclists take their lives into their hands...so it becomes somewhat of a Hobson's choice: ride the back streets and average the same speed as walking, or ride the arterial and risk "I didn't see you" death.

Lastly, I used to have discussions on the boards in South Evanston about the perception of "stopping." A cyclist can adjust their speed by 5 mph to time going through a stop sign with traffic. To a stationary viewer, this speed difference can be almost indistinguishable ("that cyclist just blew that stop sign"), but the difference on when the cyclist crosses the intersection can be close to 10 seconds later, just by slowing down a bit.

I'm just kinda tired of hearing the "rules of the road are for everyone" argument when the rules are stacked against everyone but cars, and especially when we see that a significant portion of drivers ignore the rules on a regular basis...glass houses & all that.

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Permalink Reply by Eli on November 11, 2013 at 6:05am

Here's my proposal: Every time you get in a car, from this moment forward, obey the letter of the law in every traffic exchange (that means 25 mph, not 26) everywhere to help cyclists and pedestrians view drivers as predictable users of the road who deserve respect.

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Permalink Reply by PFEggs on November 11, 2013 at 6:30am

Thanks for posting. Great insights.

Michael B said:

As usual BSNYC nails it & this writer. http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/

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Permalink Reply by Tricolor on November 11, 2013 at 7:17am

I'd say the best rule to apply to both (and pedestrians, for that matter) is if you're going to pass anything make sure you have room to do it safely. There are enough rules governing intersections that should keep other conflicts down weather or not the bike comes to a full stop.

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Permalink Reply by Juan 2-3 or more mi. on November 11, 2013 at 7:49am

That is the best thing to do, put cyclists out of their misery since the world is headed for ecological and financial disaster. Perhaps a huge meteor will be the coup de grace.

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Permalink Reply by Sarah D. on November 11, 2013 at 9:46am

+1 to all of this.

Madopal (5.8 mi) said:

Here's my beef.

So here’s my proposal: Every time you get on a bike, from this moment forward, obey the letter of the law in every traffic exchange everywhere to help drivers (and police officers) view cyclists as predictable users of the road who deserve respect.

Ok, I've wanted to get into the whole stop/Idaho stop discussion for a while. There are three major reasons I don't think cyclists should treat every stop sign as a stop:

1) Cyclists are not cars, and any collision, should it happen, between a slow moving cycle and anything else, isn't the type that needs such control

2) Cycling needs to have function. Cars get annoyed at cyclists on stop sign laden streets, because they see the cyclists keeping up or going faster. The average speed of any vehicle is limited by constant stops. So, a cyclist on a street treating stops as yields is roughly the same average speed of car on same street, stopping every block. However, if a cyclist has to stop, they average down to the speed of a pedestrian. Cycling loses much of its utility at that point. Crazy speed isn't the objective of riding, but making a 15-20 minute walk into a 5 minute trip to the grocery store is a big deal, and stop signs ruin that.

3) To wit: cars have arterial street options with controlled signals to avoid streets with stop signs every block. Cyclists take their lives into their hands...so it becomes somewhat of a Hobson's choice: ride the back streets and average the same speed as walking, or ride the arterial and risk "I didn't see you" death.

Lastly, I used to have discussions on the boards in South Evanston about the perception of "stopping." A cyclist can adjust their speed by 5 mph to time going through a stop sign with traffic. To a stationary viewer, this speed difference can be almost indistinguishable ("that cyclist just blew that stop sign"), but the difference on when the cyclist crosses the intersection can be close to 10 seconds later, just by slowing down a bit.

I'm just kinda tired of hearing the "rules of the road are for everyone" argument when the rules are stacked against everyone but cars, and especially when we see that a significant portion of drivers ignore the rules on a regular basis...glass houses & all that.