counter to manshoaling

what a terrible title. I bet no women want to listen to what i have to say when i started with a title like this. amirite?

A good way to loose solidarity is to alienate those who may agree with you. just sayin

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on June 29, 2018 at 4:01pm

You're very fragile aren't you?

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on June 30, 2018 at 2:18am

Whatever broflake.

Permalink Reply by Juan 2-3 or more mi. on June 29, 2018 at 6:18pm

Us men are the problemo. But at least they may love us cause they complete us.

Permalink Reply by Tom A.K. on June 29, 2018 at 11:56pm

Swing vote Justice Kennedy has ruled that comment as a personal attack.

Permalink Reply by dav on June 30, 2018 at 12:06am

Sexism is real. You and I don't notice it when it's subtle like the shoaling instance but women do.  This is a good forum for cyclists. Let women complain and call out sexist behavior here without comment. It's an ok thing to do. We can learn from it.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on June 30, 2018 at 2:22am

No, you don't notice it because a lot of sexist behavior is not big blatant gestures but small things or overriding social paradigms that it's not as easy to see if you are not the one they are directly happening to.

Men can be kind of terrible ad women often bare the brunt of that terribleness; let them complain about it. What harm does it cause you to acknowledge their struggles?

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on July 2, 2018 at 5:28am

Thank you for acknowledging the nature of the problem. 

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on July 2, 2018 at 5:25am

Thank you. Constructive adult conversations are a good start at solving the problem.

Permalink Reply by Yasmeen on June 30, 2018 at 5:12am

I'm going to take off my CL owner hat for a minute and share what I really thing about this thread, about the reaction a few of the men are having. Let's start with this statement, "A good way to loose solidarity is to alienate those who may agree with you. just sayin"

Jorge, Do women owe you special sensitivity when expressing their frustration because they've experienced male aggression when riding to work? How about when they are cat-called and harassed? When you say we must behave a certain way in order to gain your support about the abuse we experience, do you understand what you are telling us to do? 

So when men kindly step up and explain it to you, what is your answer? To drop words like fuck and dick. 

I appreciate what Dug is saying and the fact that he's been disagreeing with people, sticking his neck out all by himself and frankly not breaking a single rule doing it has earned some serious props in my book. Maybe instead of demonizing him, try to see it from his perspective? 

As a woman that has been attacked a number of times (#metoo) since my teens, I know male aggression and I know very well what it is like to be a woman. Men can try to empathize, try to understand but you don't walk in our shoes. So when a woman posts a rant about male aggression and shoaling, she deserves the space to express and discuss it. Scolding women for saying it without enough male sensitivity is laughable considering the subject matter. 

Women have many examples both on and off the bike of male aggression. So when you want to whip out words like "dick" and tell us we have to post our complaints a certain way in order for you to believe and support us, think again. We don't HAVE to do anything. 

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on July 2, 2018 at 5:31am

Thank you, Yasmeen.

Permalink Reply by Maurice on July 1, 2018 at 9:22am

Anti-women sexism exists in cycling culture and many other contexts. That doesn't make it okay to engage in additional sexism and personal attacks. Two wrongs don't make a right. 

 

Suggesting that an entire sex should be banned is patently sexist. Indeed, it's a classic example of sexism. So clearly sexist on its face that it's not even a matter of opinion to call it sexist. So obviously and inexcusably sexist that it would violate the terms of service of any reasonable web forum.

 

Acknowledging that does not require any "special sensitivity." Avoiding it apparently requires one to change the subject.

Permalink Reply by Yasmeen on July 1, 2018 at 11:15am

I didn't take the initial comment as banning an entire sex as literal. I saw it as an expression of frustration but I want to acknowledge your concerns because I do see your point of view. I'm going to change the subject of that thread out of respect. 

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