1/13/14 - Community Meeting on Far Northwest Side Milwaukee Avenue Complete Street Plan
Ok, just got back from the meeting. Wow. That's all I can say. That started like a vocal church service and turned into a near mob.
Highlights from the public comments:
- CDOT is so busy plowing the bike lanes, they can't plow the sidewalks on the bridges.
- Bikes are a huge source of litter, as they apparently throw so many bottles, a man on the bike lane has to clean them up every single day.
- Four lane streets should stay four lane so trucks can illegally park to unload.
- Bike/pedestrian collisions are underreported, and bikes on CTA buses are pointless.
Yogi Berra department:
- Nobody bikes on Milwaukee north of Foster, so why cater to them?
- There are too many cyclists on the sidewalk along Milwaukee north of Foster, they need to go.
Man, I went to check out how the area of Milwaukee/Lawrence would turn out, and I was torn between not wanting to say a word and wanting to ask a question to provoke the crowd. I would imagine the only time I've seen more angry old men is when The Simpsons or South Park are parodying old people.
Kudos to the CDOT folks & Alderman Arena for keeping their heads when people kept basically heckling them.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tom Z on
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You describe that meeting perfectly. People just kept yelling things, while others tried to talk. It was pretty sad knowing I live among them. Wow!
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Permalink Reply by Tom Dworzanski on
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That is so very incorrect. That stretch, especially between Elston and Devon is extremely busy during the summer with people heading up to and back from the NBT.
- Nobody bikes on Milwaukee north of Foster, so why cater to them?
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Understand... Most of what the original poster wrote, were comments by the wild crowd. These are things they really said at the meeting. That's how ridiculous it was at the meeting.
Tom Dworzanski said:That is so very incorrect. That stretch, especially between Elston and Devon is extremely busy during the summer with people heading up to and back from the NBT.
- Nobody bikes on Milwaukee north of Foster, so why cater to them?
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Permalink Reply by Madopal (16.5 mi) on
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That's the scary thing. Basically, they admitted there were a bunch of vacant storefronts that needed to be dealt with....by doing nothing at all. What clearly worked to make that area inhospitable for anyone on foot is what is necessary going forwards. Don't change anything, it's working so well.
Eddie C said:I know this Ward really well I live in it and always bike Milwaukee. the vacant store fronts tell it all .some how going to the mayors advisory meetings while the resurfacing tookplace and pleading my case to the panel including c dot reps and active trans about bike lanes went nowhere.dont let the art work on the vacant storefronts fool you no one is coming to save the day
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*Everything* was so very incorrect. Also, contradictory, as I mentioned. No one rides there, so why do they need bike lanes, oh but there are too many bikes on the sidewalk.
I especially liked the one woman who said that the CDOT data collection was "anecdotal."
Tom Dworzanski said:That is so very incorrect. That stretch, especially between Elston and Devon is extremely busy during the summer with people heading up to and back from the NBT.
- Nobody bikes on Milwaukee north of Foster, so why cater to them?
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Permalink Reply by Bob Kastigar on
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http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140114/gladstone-park/no-new-bike-...
GLADSTONE PARK — A plan to improve the flow of traffic and reduce crashes along Milwaukee Avenue in Jefferson Park and Gladstone Park could include the removal of one lane of traffic in each direction, city transportation officials said Monday at a community meeting.
The removal of the traffic lanes could allow for protected bicycle lanes along the two-mile stretch of Milwaukee Avenue between Lawrence and Elston avenues, engineers with the Chicago Department of Transportation told a packed community meeting at St. Tarcicuss Catholic School.
But that idea was met with catcalls, boos and jeers at the meeting hosted by Ald. John Arena (45th), who was forced to call for order often during the raucous meeting.
"Traffic flows just fine in this area, and we love it," said Rose Niedorezo, whose family runs Artorium, a children's art school on Milwaukee Avenue in Jefferson Park. "One lane in each direction? I just don't see how that can work."
The meeting was designed to allow traffic engineers to gather information about how best to spend $1.5 million along this stretch of road, which approximately 20,000 drivers use every day. Eighty percent of the project is being funded by federal grants.
The project should improve traffic along Milwaukee Avenue, and bring some amenities to the area, Arena said, adding that the goal was to give residents more choices in how they travel, whether by car, bike or by foot.
But most of the residents and business owners who spoke at the meeting said the plan would cause gridlock, slowing emergency vehicles and hurting businesses who depend on the smooth flow of traffic to bring customers to their doors.
"I like the neighborhood the way it is," said Susan Belcastro, who has lived in the area for 22 years, prompting loud applause and cheers. "I like the way Milwaukee opens up after the Jefferson Park" Transit Center.
Other residents — many saying the city should focus on the basics of street maintenance such as snow plowing before worrying about bicycle lanes — said they were worried that delivery trucks would find it impossible to drop their loads at Milwaukee Avenue businesses.
However, Ryan Richter said he would welcome any effort to make Milwaukee Avenue safer for pedestrians. A father of two daughters, 4 and 1-1/2, Richter said crossing the street is "scary" — but necessary if the family wants to go to the closest park.
"I don't like to do it alone, but I especially don't like doing it with my daughters," Richter said.
During the last five years, there have been 970 crashes, including one fatal incident and 17 that caused serious injuries along this stretch of road.
The project is part of Mayor Rahm Emanuel's Complete Streets project, which is designed to "ensure that everyone — pedestrians, transit users, bicyclists and motorists — can travel safely and comfortably along and across a street," according to the city.
To achieve that goal, Milwaukee Avenue, which is now five lanes — including a turning lane in the center — may need to go on a "road diet," said Nathan Rosenberry, a city engineer. That could mean the elimination of one lane of travel in each direction, he added.
That could reduce crashes by 30 percent by forcing drivers to slow down, make it easier for pedestrians to get around and make it safer for bicyclists by giving them a protected lane to travel in, separated from vehicles, Rosenberry said.
Milwaukee now has white bike lane pavement markings between Lawrence and Elston avenues but no buffers or barriers between cyclists and cars.
Emanuel has vowed to build 100 miles of protected bike lanes in Chicago during his first term as part of his Chicago Streets for Cycling 2020 plan, and Milwaukee Avenue is a key path from the Loop to the Northwest Side of the city, Rosenberry said.
In New York, Vancouver, British Columbia, and Portland, Ore., stores along streets that have slimmed down thanks to a road diet have seen sales increase, Rosenberry said. That statement was greeted with shouts of disbelief and derision, forcing Arena to call for order.Another community meeting will be held in the spring, once the scope of the project has been finalized, Rosenberry said. The earliest construction could start would be late fall 2014 or early spring 2015, he added.
The project could also include additional high-visibility and shortened crosswalks along Milwaukee Avenue as well as pedestrian refuge islands that would give those on foot a safe place to wait if they were unable to make it all the way across the street. Such changes would also result in fewer parking spaces along Milwaukee Avenue, Rosenberry said.
Other possibilities for the project include road resurfacing, new traffic signals coordinated to smooth the flow of traffic and new turning lanes, Rosenberry said. In addition, spaces for buses to pull out of the flow of traffic could be built to reduce backups while passengers board and disembark, he added.
Pace, which operates buses in suburban Chicago, is also planning an express bus that could take travelers from the Jefferson Park Transit Center to Golf Mill Mall in Niles. It could begin operations in late 2015.
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I'm really upset I wasn't there to support bike lanes, in my backyard. I'm not sure how I would of reacted to the responses I am hearing. Beyond stupidity. I think that would be obvious to all who take part in making decisions. Now that I see we do need many more supporters I will make it a priority to go to the next meeting, if there is one. I love biking N of Foster, because there is a lot of room, not too many cars, and definitely no bikes (that I have seen)- they are ALWAYS on the sidewalk. Thaat corner by Superdawg should be better configured for ped's and cyclists, honestly I only feel safe using the sidewalk to cross at Devon, the only time I can think of that I do that in all of Chicago! Here I was yesterday, daydreaming of having the first true protected bike lane in Chicago, w/ a curb in my neighborhood!
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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on
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This piece reminds me too much of the mess I see every day on 95th St. - an area that's not very hospitable to peds due to heavy traffic, made worse by failure to do simple things like clear sidewalks and bus stops. And the so called leaders of some of our business districts wonder why they don't get enough customers to support businesses.
Madopal (5.8 mi) said:That's the scary thing. Basically, they admitted there were a bunch of vacant storefronts that needed to be dealt with....by doing nothing at all. What clearly worked to make that area inhospitable for anyone on foot is what is necessary going forwards. Don't change anything, it's working so well.
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Anecdotal? *sigh* We live in the state of Moronia.
Madopal (5.8 mi) said:*Everything* was so very incorrect. Also, contradictory, as I mentioned. No one rides there, so why do they need bike lanes, oh but there are too many bikes on the sidewalk.
I especially liked the one woman who said that the CDOT data collection was "anecdotal."
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We definitely would have needed some serious numbers, Apie. The hostility in the room made it so that any bike people were staying quiet. As I said, the only thought I had was to go up and ask the crowd if they remembered what manners or civility were. When someone suggested a show of hands vote, I was fairly sure it was to identify who was for the plan. I was glad that Arena, sensibly so, said that there was no way this crowd was representative of the ward, and he wasn't allowing such a thing.
I saw a CPD officer recording the session with his phone, and there was a man & wife next to him. The man was responsible for at least two shouted heckles, including one when Alderman Arena was responding to a question.
All around, it felt hostile, but in an organized way, which made it even more scary.
Apie (10.6) said:I'm really upset I wasn't there to support bike lanes, in my backyard. I'm not sure how I would of reacted to the responses I am hearing. Beyond stupidity. I think that would be obvious to all who take part in making decisions. Now that I see we do need many more supporters I will make it a priority to go to the next meeting, if there is one. I love biking N of Foster, because there is a lot of room, not too many cars, and definitely no bikes (that I have seen)- they are ALWAYS on the sidewalk. Thaat corner by Superdawg should be better configured for ped's and cyclists, honestly I only feel safe using the sidewalk to cross at Devon, the only time I can think of that I do that in all of Chicago! Here I was yesterday, daydreaming of having the first true protected bike lane in Chicago, w/ a curb in my neighborhood!
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That was all I could think the whole time. The situation was so surreal, it was like a parody of itself. I couldn't fathom how anyone there thought it made sense, but yet the applause for the stupidity and the jeers for anything else just kept coming.
Anne Alt said:Anecdotal? *sigh* We live in the state of Moronia.
Madopal (5.8 mi) said:*Everything* was so very incorrect. Also, contradictory, as I mentioned. No one rides there, so why do they need bike lanes, oh but there are too many bikes on the sidewalk.
I especially liked the one woman who said that the CDOT data collection was "anecdotal."
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