Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on July 12, 2009 at 5:43am

This is similar to Portland, OR. There, the vertical racks are right next to the doors, making it much easier to get bikes in and out. BART, in the San Francisco area, has wide open bike areas right next to the doors.

I would LOVE to see vertical racks in wide open areas next to the doors on CTA trains. Something like that wouldn't be feasible on Metra because there's not enough vertical space in the double decker cars. I think it will take a significant change in leadership at Metra before they become more welcoming to bikes.

A wide open bike car would be excellent on either CTA or Metra - something to aim for down the road.

BTW, folding bikes in bags are OK at any time on either CTA or Metra.

Jared said:

Minneapolis allows bikes on their light rail all the time. That said they have vertical racks for the bikes and probably don't have the passenger volume the CTA has.

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Permalink Reply by payton on July 15, 2009 at 6:51am

Matt, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the purpose of mass transit is to move masses of people. Bikes take up more space than people, especially on trains that are already crowded. Creating more space for bikes at peak hour would be very, very costly, and for a very small marginal benefit. Even in Berlin, bikes aren't allowed if there isn't room on the train -- but it's up to employees to make that distinction. (NYC has a similar policy.) Per their website (emphasis added), "Fahrräder können in... Bahnen... sofern es der Platz erlaubt (gegebenenfalls entscheidet darüber das Personal)."

I'd prefer to have set hours when bikes are definitely allowed instead of having it up to the whim of CTA employees -- who might deny boarding to you at any hour, for any reason. Sure, having set hours is sometimes inflexible; I've wanted to board empty inbound Green Line trains in the afternoon and been denied, for instance, but ended up just taking the bus instead. Smaller cities like Minneapolis and PDX do not have anywhere near the passenger loads that CTA carries (6X PDX's and 21X Mpls's ridership).

People who must bike+train to work at peak hours have many options:
- Bike to the train station; many train stations have indoor bike parking
- Bike to a bus and put the bike on the bus' rack
- Bike FROM the train station, for those whose workplaces are far from a train station; if downtown, you can store bikes overnight at the bike station
- Use a folding bike

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Permalink Reply by vxla on July 15, 2009 at 7:36am

And purchasing new rolling stock to support a few cyclists that may put their bikes on trains once in a while is poor use of money.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Jovanovic on July 15, 2009 at 8:36am

Thanks Payton for the reply. I really appreciate it. What is more, I learned something from you. I had no idea that bikes were only allowed on Berlin trains if there was enough space. When I lived there, I never had problems loading my bike during rush hours.
In any event, CTA could at least change the regulation in a way so that "bikes are allowed on trains at all times except when the number of passengers is too high". And then it would be up to the CTA official to give go ahead at the spot.




payton said:

Matt, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the purpose of mass transit is to move masses of people. Bikes take up more space than people, especially on trains that are already crowded. Creating more space for bikes at peak hour would be very, very costly, and for a very small marginal benefit. Even in Berlin, bikes aren't allowed if there isn't room on the train -- but it's up to employees to make that distinction. (NYC has a similar policy.) Per their website (emphasis added), "Fahrräder können in... Bahnen... sofern es der Platz erlaubt (gegebenenfalls entscheidet darüber das Personal)."

I'd prefer to have set hours when bikes are definitely allowed instead of having it up to the whim of CTA employees -- who might deny boarding to you at any hour, for any reason. Sure, having set hours is sometimes inflexible; I've wanted to board empty inbound Green Line trains in the afternoon and been denied, for instance, but ended up just taking the bus instead. Smaller cities like Minneapolis and PDX do not have anywhere near the passenger loads that CTA carries (6X PDX's and 21X Mpls's ridership).

People who must bike+train to work at peak hours have many options:
- Bike to the train station; many train stations have indoor bike parking
- Bike to a bus and put the bike on the bus' rack
- Bike FROM the train station, for those whose workplaces are far from a train station; if downtown, you can store bikes overnight at the bike station
- Use a folding bike

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Permalink Reply by payton on July 16, 2009 at 6:56am

I'd prefer to have set hours to having on-the-fly enforcement. If you're commuting to work, you can plan around set hours ("okay, I have to be at the train station by 6:50AM but then I'm 100% sure I can bring my bike on") but not so with the employees making up the rules ("well, I'm here at 7:30AM, and maybe this employee will let me on now, maybe later, maybe I have to go somewhere else and convince someone, oh drat I have to be at work at 8AM").

And, for whatever reason, Americans are used to hard-and-fast rules that don't allow for fudge factors. It's not always best -- e.g., yield signs might work just as well as stop signs, but Americans pretty much only use the latter -- but it's what we're used to.

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Permalink Reply by Duppie on July 16, 2009 at 8:46am

We already have on-the fly-enforcement - on Metra in off-peak hours. And it is my biggest beef with Bikes on Metra. A while back I took an early afternoon train home (the last one before peak hours). When I got off at Ravenswood my traincar was 40-50% empty. Yet on the platform a conductor was yelling to a woman on a bike that she could not get on the train 'because he said so'. Obviously she missed whatever appointment she was going to. The few times I took my bike on Metra at off-peak hours, I always had a little bit of anxiety. Will they let me on or not?

The other problem with on-the-fly-enforcement on CTA trains is that the station attendant typically has no clue whether the next train is full, unlike conductors on Metra. In most cases they do not see the trains since they are on a different level. So how are they going to make the 'right' decision?
Duppie

payton said:

I'd prefer to have set hours to having on-the-fly enforcement.

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Permalink Reply by pjc jr on July 16, 2009 at 11:08am

The CTA is doing a horrible job of communicating when and when not cyclist can board. I got stranded couple weeks back in Arlington Hts. cause train tendent wouldn't let me on. I said I ride this train often and have never been denied, nor did it say on the website I couldn't board. He told me I was done riding the train this summer and to write an email if I had a problem with it. In hindsight, I wish I took down his badge/employee number and I would of wrote a letter on his additude and treatment. Had to do everything in my power to just go off the guy!

Good thing I love cycling, cause I had a high mileage day!

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Permalink Reply by Matt Jovanovic on July 16, 2009 at 2:57pm

There have been 30 replies to the topic so far and it seems to me that the best idea would be to suggest to CTA an introduction of a no-seat car on trains, a car where both cyclists and regular passengers would be able to ride on. For that reason, I will write a letter to Governor Quinn and the CTA officials to see what they would have to say. Anyone willing to support this idea is welcome!

h3 said:

Um, MARK-- The whole point is that Metra allows the conductors to determine when bikes can and can't ride completely at the conductor's discretion. This conductor did absolutely nothing that they would be reprimanded for.

M.A.R.K. said:

That is the Metra not the CTA in Arlington Heights.. They did not give you a reason for not allowing you to board the train? I Would have for sure tried to get his name or ID number and called and complained. Always check Metra black out dates(eg. all week of the taste, Venetian night, etc.), maybe your attempt fell on one of these dates or during rush hours? Also, I have my reservations of throwing my bike on that line a lot of times, and often when the train would pull up I cross my fingers and hope that they let me on. It is the strictest line out of all of them and those conductors can be really nasty for the littlest reasons like having your feet up along the top row and such.
Outside of being denied entry on a tallbike(which I had no complaint), I think I have been denied twice due to capacity, or at least that is what they told me. A bike really only takes up three or four seats in the handicap seating, and people can easily be asked to move and move to a different seat. I have had conductors do this in the past when I have asked people and they have refused, and then went off cussing and complaining. I do not think I have ever riden that line, and not seen empty seats scattered about for people to sit in, people just don't want to share their seats or sit next to a stranger but are happy to pack in a car with 50 other strangers without a problem. Heaven forbid you have to say hello to someone, or pass the time away just shooting the shit with a stranger.
pjc jr said:

The CTA is doing a horrible job of communicating when and when not cyclist can board. I got stranded couple weeks back in Arlington Hts. cause train tendent wouldn't let me on. I said I ride this train often and have never been denied, nor did it say on the website I couldn't board. He told me I was done riding the train this summer and to write an email if I had a problem with it. In hindsight, I wish I took down his badge/employee number and I would of wrote a letter on his additude and treatment. Had to do everything in my power to just go off the guy!
Good thing I love cycling, cause I had a high mileage day!

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Permalink Reply by Mike McCune on August 26, 2011 at 7:57am

The CTA officially allows folding bikes on all vehicles at all times but try to take a small folding bike on a train during rush hour. Some station agents are cool with folding bikes while others will not let you in the station.

http://www.transitchicago.com/bikeandride/default.aspx

BK said:

I like the idea of having cars with no seats, although I know it wasn't a popular idea when they started doing it on the Brown Line. Bikes still aren't allowed on them but already having them in the fleet is one less obstacle to overcome. I haven't heard anything CTA's seat-less cars in a long time so I wonder if it is no longer happening or if people have accepted it. I can definitely see seat-less cars as a solution. It's a win-win, to be cliché. The CTA loves it because SRO increases capacity and bikers would like it for the ability to put bikes on trains during rush. The only other solution would be to allow folding bikes 100% of the time. Do they already do that anyway? Sorry, I'm too lazy to look right now.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on August 26, 2011 at 8:11am

I so rarely take the train these days because of this very issue.  It's just too difficult so I don't take it.

 

Their loss. I'd be a paying customer if they only put some bike cars on the lines.  And I know I'm not the only one.   God forbid they get busy and have to add more trains and more cars.  Maybe they should just be happy with the declining ridership as they don't have to work as hard.

 

I'm not going to ride my bike 20 miles one-way and then back again. I'd be cool to jump on the Blue line that is right next to my place and take the train 15 miles and ride the last few away from the L.  But instead I just take the car.  F it. 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Jared on August 26, 2011 at 8:55am

If they add bike cars they'd have to build bigger platforms, which would be a pretty expensive undertaking.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on August 26, 2011 at 8:58am

Or maybe just run more trains to take up the increased demand.

 

I bet a lot of businesses would LOVE to be in the situation where they need to expand to meet a growing customer base.

 

Or it could be like the typical government project.  Waste-waste-waste-inefficiency-waste....

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