Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David Barish on March 18, 2014 at 4:21am

Hmm. Just read the pages here. We have multiple threads yea/nay on helmets and the discussion between Aleks and Dug belongs there. Its a valid discussion. I have long been one of the pro helmet nerds on this forum but certainly understand a fear of promoting cycling as more dangerous than it really is.

I think this thread is about the survey. I filled it out but was not sure about its structure. I am not sure what kind of data you are looking for but felt very boxed in by choices about where I primarily do things as multiple answers were correct. I was also surprised by how short the survey is. I wondered whether there are more answers you need. I think you miss nuance you may be searching for. For example, I am a helmet nerd. Yet, I have ridden without one. I was stuck somewhere. I had forgot my helmet. I tried out somebody else's bike. I ride around the block to see if the repair I made was correct. etc. If you are looking to say that there are different patterns in city and suburbs I suspect your survey will give you that answer. If you are  looking for when people do and when people don't or if you are looking for what would change people's minds- fashion, comfort, ease of use, disposable (a Divvy related issue) or other, you may need questions to help you obtain richer data.  

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Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on March 18, 2014 at 5:08am

I think this particular topic-creep commenced with the OP.

1. Join the chainlink.

2. An hour later, post a survey.  

3. Fail to search or completely ignore multiple threads regarding helmets and safety. 

"Here's my bias." Add some gratuitous condescension. "Here's my biased survey."  

David Barish said:

Hmm. Just read the pages here. We have multiple threads yea/nay on helmets and the discussion between Aleks and Dug belongs there. Its a valid discussion. I have long been one of the pro helmet nerds on this forum but certainly understand a fear of promoting cycling as more dangerous than it really is.

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Permalink Reply by Michelle S on March 18, 2014 at 5:25am

I answered the survey and am chuckling that the highest age category is "35+".

 

There are many factors that go into people's decisions about when and whether to wear a helmet, as I'm sure you're finding out, Aleks. Good luck with your project!

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Permalink Reply by Duppie on March 18, 2014 at 5:47am

I think it commenced even before OP joined. His client, the Brain Injury Asssociation, is an industry trade group with an agenda. This survey is just another way to push their agenda. While their intention is good (reduce brain injuries) their approach is so narrow and their solution so simple-minded (wear a helmet) that it loses relevance to the broader discussion of bicycling safety. 

And if that survey is the result of what they teach OP at Loyola, I would consider asking for my tuition payments back.  That is one ill-defined survey.

Kevin C said:

I think this particular topic-creep commenced with the OP.

1. Join the chainlink.

2. An hour later, post a survey.  

3. Fail to search or completely ignore multiple threads regarding helmets and safety. 

"Here's my bias." Add some gratuitous condescension. "Here's my biased survey."  

David Barish said:

Hmm. Just read the pages here. We have multiple threads yea/nay on helmets and the discussion between Aleks and Dug belongs there. Its a valid discussion. I have long been one of the pro helmet nerds on this forum but certainly understand a fear of promoting cycling as more dangerous than it really is.

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Permalink Reply by Aleks Gornisiewicz on March 18, 2014 at 6:50am

haha if that is your goal then what can I say, I feel sorry for you. These professionals at least are trying to do something and I wonder if you are active and do anything to improve the community or change something or all you do is actually hide behind the computer screen where no one can see you and tell others what they should do and what they do wrong. 

I'm not going to address all the ridiculous accusations that appeared in different posts because it would be a waste of time. Yes, I signed up only because I wanted to post the survey but I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Everyone has different opinions and views but they all should be respected and responded to in a little different manner than many of you have done. Also, I'm a student and I STILL LEARN, and yes the survey maybe might have been better or done differently, but it is a part of a learning process. 

Thanks to those who filled out the survey.

h' 1.0 said:

This discussion is turning out to be a great education for Aleks in why paid/professional advocates stay as far away from online discussions as possible. Nice work everyone :-)

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Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on March 18, 2014 at 6:59am

Personally, I'd be thrilled if paid/professional advocates and commercial enterprises stayed away from the chainlink's forum. "Oh look! A ready-made 10,000 member focus group."

h' 1.0 said:

This discussion is turning out to be a great education for Aleks in why paid/professional advocates stay as far away from online discussions as possible. Nice work everyone :-)

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Permalink Reply by Julie Aberman (Hochstadter) on March 18, 2014 at 7:00am

Just filled out the survey and agree it was not very clear for me how to answer some of the questions.

Like do I ride in the city or neighborhoods? To me that's the same thing, I ride in neighborhoods in the city.

Also note google forms allows you to send people to a different question depending on how they answer.  I wear a helmet 99% of time (typically if I forget it. I even take it with me if there is a chance I will divvy that day). So the last question, what would encourage you to wear a helmet doesn't apply to me.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Talbert on March 18, 2014 at 7:26am

When I tried to submit, my browser timed out

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 18, 2014 at 7:34am

Bikes are for children and young people who race don't you know...

Michelle Stenzel said:

I answered the survey and am chuckling that the highest age category is "35+".

 

There are many factors that go into people's decisions about when and whether to wear a helmet, as I'm sure you're finding out, Aleks. Good luck with your project!

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Permalink Reply by Julia 3.5/7.5 mi on March 18, 2014 at 8:02am

Hi Aleks,

I wanted to touch on a few points, mostly because I work in higher ed and I see situations like this pop up from time to time.

Understandably, when you work with a client or a class project, you'll find your research has a specific angle or agenda. Going forward, it might be most helpful to outline who is funding this research, and the basis for your questions. I think adding a disclaimer to the top of the survey, indicating that the questions are rooted in brain injury statistics and the reduction in related serious/long-term effects, might have a positive effect in quelling some of the "I have a different opinion" responses. Not that these responses aren't valid - they certainly are - but they're outside of the scope of your current research. You've touched a nerve here because your initial assumptions "wearing a helmet reduces brain injuries; everyone should do it" doesn't align with many of the other elements cyclists consider when riding (cycling infrastructure and traffic speed, for example).

On professionalism, especially if you continue in public places like this forum, I'd recommend that you take a more laid-back approach to criticism. No survey will please everyone, and you'll always get responses you don't like or personally agree with. I do agree with the comment above that a quick search this site would've shown the "wear a helmet/don't wear a helmet" debate to be much deeper and more nuanced than you likely perceived. Personally, I didn't have a problem with filling out the survey initially (besides the multi-options I mentioned above), but now that you've tried to "beat your point" into forum members and resorted to yelling and snide comments, I'm not pleased to be a part of your research. Please do consider the larger picture you represent here - especially your client and Loyola University. I'm not certain about requirements for decorum for your university, but I know there are several "public voice" policies in place where I work, and your comments in this thread would not be aligned to them.

Wishing you the best of luck in your research, and hoping that this experience will help guide and shape your future endeavors -

Julia

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

haha if that is your goal then what can I say, I feel sorry for you. These professionals at least are trying to do something and I wonder if you are active and do anything to improve the community or change something or all you do is actually hide behind the computer screen where no one can see you and tell others what they should do and what they do wrong. 

I'm not going to address all the ridiculous accusations that appeared in different posts because it would be a waste of time. Yes, I signed up only because I wanted to post the survey but I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Everyone has different opinions and views but they all should be respected and responded to in a little different manner than many of you have done. Also, I'm a student and I STILL LEARN, and yes the survey maybe might have been better or done differently, but it is a part of a learning process. 

Thanks to those who filled out the survey.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 18, 2014 at 8:06am

OK, first off your first paragraph here is pretty hilarious because Howard is one of the people around here who you can see at tons of events and who donates tons of his own time, and I'm pretty sure funds, to several worthy causes and organizations.  I know Howard is one of the people on this forum who is not only active in the cycling community in Chicago but whose contributions make cycling in Chicago better.  Of course you would know that if you were a member of this community and not just some ding-dong who sees a giant focus group for their project...

You'd also know that I also do my fair share of volunteering and am very accessible in real life.

As for answering the accusations I think it is something you should do, provided you have a leg to stand on.  If you are a doing work for an industry funded organization ('Not for profit' does not mean an organization is not actually part of a corporate marketing machine) that is realy nothing more than a scare tact shill for the helmet industry why should we welcome you here?  Should I welcome you with open arms when you are trying to get free information that doesn't actually want to make cycling safer but just sell more helmets? 

You want to use us for research fine but don't try and tell us that it's to make cyclists safer; just admit it's to sell more helmets.

For the record, I took your survey and it is terrible!

-Why did you end age bracketing at 35?  I'm 38 and I would be willing to be my attitudes and thoughts on helmets are very different from people in their late 40's or early 50's

-What is the difference between riding in the city and riding a neighborhood?  I ride through several neighborhoods in the city every day.

-Do you even ride a bike?  Or know anyone who does?

For the record, I wear a helmet about 90% of the time I am on a bike and I think it's a good idea but I also do not think most cycling is so dangerous that you are at significant risk without one.

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

haha if that is your goal then what can I say, I feel sorry for you. These professionals at least are trying to do something and I wonder if you are active and do anything to improve the community or change something or all you do is actually hide behind the computer screen where no one can see you and tell others what they should do and what they do wrong. 

I'm not going to address all the ridiculous accusations that appeared in different posts because it would be a waste of time. Yes, I signed up only because I wanted to post the survey but I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Everyone has different opinions and views but they all should be respected and responded to in a little different manner than many of you have done. Also, I'm a student and I STILL LEARN, and yes the survey maybe might have been better or done differently, but it is a part of a learning process. 

Thanks to those who filled out the survey.

h' 1.0 said:

This discussion is turning out to be a great education for Aleks in why paid/professional advocates stay as far away from online discussions as possible. Nice work everyone :-)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 18, 2014 at 8:08am

Very, very well said.

Julia 3.5/7.5 mi said:

Hi Aleks,

I wanted to touch on a few points, mostly because I work in higher ed and I see situations like this pop up from time to time.

Understandably, when you work with a client or a class project, you'll find your research has a specific angle or agenda. Going forward, it might be most helpful to outline who is funding this research, and the basis for your questions. I think adding a disclaimer to the top of the survey, indicating that the questions are rooted in brain injury statistics and the reduction in related serious/long-term effects, might have a positive effect in quelling some of the "I have a different opinion" responses. Not that these responses aren't valid - they certainly are - but they're outside of the scope of your current research. You've touched a nerve here because your initial assumptions "wearing a helmet reduces brain injuries; everyone should do it" doesn't align with many of the other elements cyclists consider when riding (cycling infrastructure and traffic speed, for example).

On professionalism, especially if you continue in public places like this forum, I'd recommend that you take a more laid-back approach to criticism. No survey will please everyone, and you'll always get responses you don't like or personally agree with. I do agree with the comment above that a quick search this site would've shown the "wear a helmet/don't wear a helmet" debate to be much deeper and more nuanced than you likely perceived. Personally, I didn't have a problem with filling out the survey initially (besides the multi-options I mentioned above), but now that you've tried to "beat your point" into forum members and resorted to yelling and snide comments, I'm not pleased to be a part of your research. Please do consider the larger picture you represent here - especially your client and Loyola University. I'm not certain about requirements for decorum for your university, but I know there are several "public voice" policies in place where I work, and your comments in this thread would not be aligned to them.

Wishing you the best of luck in your research, and hoping that this experience will help guide and shape your future endeavors -

Julia

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

haha if that is your goal then what can I say, I feel sorry for you. These professionals at least are trying to do something and I wonder if you are active and do anything to improve the community or change something or all you do is actually hide behind the computer screen where no one can see you and tell others what they should do and what they do wrong. 

I'm not going to address all the ridiculous accusations that appeared in different posts because it would be a waste of time. Yes, I signed up only because I wanted to post the survey but I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Everyone has different opinions and views but they all should be respected and responded to in a little different manner than many of you have done. Also, I'm a student and I STILL LEARN, and yes the survey maybe might have been better or done differently, but it is a part of a learning process. 

Thanks to those who filled out the survey.

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