Running Red Lights & Pedestrian Cross Walks

I am a casual commuter bicyclist. I ride to work down Milwaukee via my bike or the 56 bus. (Bucktown to West Loop)

One thing I notice during my commutes is that at certain "T" intersections 19 out of 20 bicyclists will not stop at the red light and pass through it. It doesn't matter if there are pedestrians at cross-walks or incoming traffic. Some will not even slow down.

Personally, it drives me crazy. I find it to be completely irresponsible, dangerous and discourteous at these times of day. It wouldn't concern me as much if it was not during rush hour. However, we are talking about people trying to use the crosswalks and cars attempting to drive normally and merge onto busy roads.

Example:  Milwaukee & Wabansia - This intersection has 2 crosswalks across Milwaukee. It has a day care & public library. Foot traffic is high with parents/kids/strollers and commuters. Bicyclists do not stop even if there are people crossing or traffic coming onto Milwaukee. I have seen them swerve around strollers and disregard any safety concerns. Personally I have almost been hit once, saw 2 near collisions with strollers and people held up from crossing because of a stream of unconcerned bicyclists.

Example:  Milwaukee & Noble - This intersection has one highly used crosswalk across Milwaukee. It is by a school with a lot of student pedestrians (with a crossing guard) and a good amount of senior citizens. Again, Bicyclist run this red all of the time even if there are people crossing. Personally, I have seen near collisions with groups of students, 3 seniors and cars making left turns.

If this was a rare occurrence I wouldn't be posting. In fact, this issue alone prompted me to create an account and post at Chainlink.

I want to understand WHY people think this is okay and don't think it is a danger to themselves and others?

Why can't they stop?

Why do they not care about the safety of others?

Why do they not care about the rules of the road?

The mindset is what I'm looking to understand. Right now I just think they are selfish a-holes who value their time/safety/space more than others. On days with near collisions I even get angry to the point of yelling. (I saw an old woman missed by nearly 3 inches. [http://abcnews.go.com/US/bicyclist-us-guilty-vehicular-homicide/sto...])

I want to be proven wrong and have an understanding of why this happens.

Thanks,

KZ

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on August 7, 2013 at 9:25am

I found a video of you:



MFrank said:

na, I just get to work faster than you.

Tom D said:

Rofl, you've got a lot of buds at 26th and California.

MFrank said:

I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine.

Permalink Reply by MFrank on August 7, 2013 at 9:35am

I love portlandia. Thanks!

in all reality though, everyone is running red lights during rush hour. Cars, pedestrians, bikes, razr scooters, whatever. cop cars & taxis. I'm going with the flow, and until someone wants to enforce bike laws, I'm going to do what I can.

I think that's the bigger issue here. If you want everyone to follow the law you should tell the police to enforce it. A law is only as good as the people who choose to enforce it, and no one is enforcing any rush hour traffic laws.

once again, if you want to follow the rules, great for you. I'm doing what I want.


Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:

I found a video of you:



MFrank said:

na, I just get to work faster than you.

Tom D said:

Rofl, you've got a lot of buds at 26th and California.

MFrank said:

I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine.

Permalink Reply by SlowCoachOnTheRoad on August 7, 2013 at 9:44am

Quoth Jared:

"I can be right all day long, and still dead for an eternity."   I liked that.

Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on August 7, 2013 at 9:45am

Just because everyone is doing something, doesn't make it right.

MFrank said:

I love portlandia. Thanks!

in all reality though, everyone is running red lights during rush hour. Cars, pedestrians, bikes, razr scooters, whatever. cop cars & taxis. I'm going with the flow, and until someone wants to enforce bike laws, I'm going to do what I can.

I think that's the bigger issue here. If you want everyone to follow the law you should tell the police to enforce it. A law is only as good as the people who choose to enforce it, and no one is enforcing any rush hour traffic laws.

once again, if you want to follow the rules, great for you. I'm doing what I want.

Permalink Reply by MFrank on August 7, 2013 at 9:50am

agreed. that's why I ride how I ride. I don't hold everybody up to my standards. you shouldn't hold me to yours.

Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:

Just because everyone is doing something, doesn't make it right.

MFrank said:

I love portlandia. Thanks!

in all reality though, everyone is running red lights during rush hour. Cars, pedestrians, bikes, razr scooters, whatever. cop cars & taxis. I'm going with the flow, and until someone wants to enforce bike laws, I'm going to do what I can.

I think that's the bigger issue here. If you want everyone to follow the law you should tell the police to enforce it. A law is only as good as the people who choose to enforce it, and no one is enforcing any rush hour traffic laws.

once again, if you want to follow the rules, great for you. I'm doing what I want.

Permalink Reply by Tom Dworzanski on August 7, 2013 at 9:56am

Why do you think that? I blow reds and stops all the time and my gear ratio is massive. I don't get passed. Ever.

I don't really care if you run reds/stops, I just don't think you should say such flagrantly ignorant things. People who complain that cyclists who don't follow the rules of the road give us a bad name are right. To me though, the problem isn't the cyclists who safely run reds, it's that the laws and infrastructure do not equalize (or better yet prioritize) cyclists. The solution is to provide a legal framework for cyclists to safely run lights/stops because it's much harder (and more dangerous) for us to stop and start than cars. (Especially if your bike has the momentum of a freight train with a huge fixed gear crank and tiny rear cog.)


MFrank said:

na, I just get to work faster than you.

Tom D said:

Rofl, you've got a lot of buds at 26th and California.

MFrank said:

I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine.




This is truth:

MFrank said:


I think that's the bigger issue here. If you want everyone to follow the law you should tell the police to enforce it.

Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on August 7, 2013 at 10:00am

If this is your problem, then you should get a bike with a freewheel and brake. Don't expect society to compensate for your lack of a proper city bike. 

Tom D said:

(Especially if your bike has the momentum of a freight train with a huge fixed gear crank and tiny rear cog.)

Permalink Reply by Tom Dworzanski on August 7, 2013 at 10:18am

I have a brake, I'm not an idiot.

I like a fast bike because it makes my bike a car-replacement and it makes travel efficient. I'm not saying people should be skinning kids crossing the street in school zones, I'm saying bikes need certain routes to serve the same need as expressways serve for cars -- fast, longer-distance traffic.

Obviously, we won't all go the same speed. That's fine. That's why car-roads have multiple lanes. Slow traffic on the right, fast traffic on the left. There is nothing wrong with people going differente speeds. The problem is the idea that we must all go as slow as the slowest person. And again, the slow person should be able to go slow, he is not wrong either. The problem is infrastructure to make the roads safe for everyone.

I think the City of Chicago is thinking along similar lines with their 2020 plan and focusing on making some roads major arterial cycling routes. Ideas like this and building the infrastructure (multiple bike lanes, bridges at busy intersections, barriers from cars, etc) are the solution here -- it's not making everyone a second-class citizen to the capabilities of cars.

All that being said, until then I do agree that many cyclists act recklessly. A skilled urban cyclist should never be in anyone's way and so shouldn't give anyone a reason (other than maybe on principle) to be upset with him/her. That's just not the case and so something needs to change. I think it should be the law (for now) and infrastructure (in the long term). But until that happens, you are right, it's wrong to run stops/lights and I very much regret it even though I shouldn't have to regret it.



Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:

If this is your problem, then you should get a bike with a freewheel and brake. Don't expect society to compensate for your lack of a proper city bike. 

Tom D said:

(Especially if your bike has the momentum of a freight train with a huge fixed gear crank and tiny rear cog.)

Permalink Reply by David P. on August 7, 2013 at 10:25am
Permalink Reply by Tom Dworzanski on August 7, 2013 at 10:34am
Permalink Reply by igz on August 8, 2013 at 2:10am

the arrogance is strong with this one...

MFrank said:

I run red lights down Milwaukee in my commute. This is me not feeling bad.

I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine.

Permalink Reply by MFrank on August 8, 2013 at 2:38am

ignorance: lack of information.

I don't lack information; I'm pretty well informed. 

We've already established in this thread that its ok to run certain red lights (like at the top of a T intersection, i.e. Milwaukee/Elston or Milwaukee/Noble), so most of us knowingly break the law, or believe in our own judgement as to which red lights are 'ok' to run and which aren't.

I don't come to a complete stop at every stop sign and put my foot on the ground and I'm assuming you don't either. We are living in the grey area of illegal actions that are not enforced (albieit not designed for bikes either), I'm just in a different position in the area of grey than you and I'm willing to state my position. God forbid there be some dissent in bike land.

Am I wrong for choosing to ride how I want and not the way you want me to ride? None of us ride to the letter of the law, so why is it that what you believe is ok for you but what I believe is not ok for me?


igz said:

the arrogance is strong with this one...

MFrank said:

I run red lights down Milwaukee in my commute. This is me not feeling bad.

I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine.

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