The Chainlink

Bikes on trains: Conductors perspective

Ive looked through a few of the topics on this matter and thought I'd give my 2c from a different viewpoint, that toolbag from the kingdom of jerk off, a Metra conductor. Have 15 years in and it was oh so nice for the first 9 not to have to deal with this but as we all know, that ended a few years back and the geniuses at Metra who came with the plan as usual half assed it and left us , the operating employee, holding the bag for it. While they are at home every weekend, they leave it to us to enforce the policy, rules and regs that go along with being able to bring bikes on board, a policy that  to this day many riders have zero clue about the proper way of doing. Of course the people who read this forum dont fall into this category at all, you are all respectful and abide by what the conductor says every time you ride Im sure. Bikes in general are a pain to have on the train, whether or not there is room for them. To this day, my estimate is that 60% of the people STILL get on without a way to secure their bike to the bottom rail like theyre supposed to, then want to fight with me about letting them ride anyway. Main reason we are such sticklers for this? If for some reason that bike is unsecured and something happens where the train moves suddenly, derails, goes through a crossover, etc and it breaks loose and hits little Tommy sitting with his Mom across the aisle and hurts him, management and Tommys Mom arent going to come after you the bike rider. Nope, theyre going to come after me, the conductor and first thing theyre going to ask / tell me is why didnt you make sure those bikes were tied down? Boom, Im out of a job when Tommys Mom sues and Im not putting my families future at risk because some doofus doesnt carry around a bungee or chain. Next, relinquishing your seat or being asked to leave the train when the train becomes too crowded IS a possibility and a risk you take when you bring your bike on board. Ive had so many arguments over this its not even funny. People seem to think once theyre on, thats it and they cant be asked to leave when we need the space. Sorry, but we can do that and Im not making a family of 5 stand up for 30 plus miles just so you can bring your bike on. Next up, reaching max capacity . Certain trains can take up to 15 bikes but we dont have to take that many. If the bikes that are on board are clogging the aisle making walking by them unsafe, Im going to cut off the bikes right there and no more will be allowed to board. So when you try to get on halfway down the line and I tell you we're full, its my decision and its final. I usually get the "cmon man you can take 1 more" stance and Im not going to compromise the safety of the other passengers no matter how much people beg and plead. Youve all seen how crowded those trains are especially on weekends, and when I have to move 4 people from their seats when you get on 1 stop out of Ogilve / Union so you can bring your bike on, its a pain, I dont like my job to be a pain, I like it to run smooth. Bikes in general cause the train not to run so smooth because of all the baggage that goes along with it. Just keep that in mind next time you think the conductor is being a jerk to some rider about their bike. NONE and I mean none of the conductors I know like having them on board m we are being forced to do it because some dopes at the top thought it would be a good idea and forced it on us without really creating a way to make it palatable for us and for you the rider. For that I dont fault you I fault them but they leave us to clean up the mess . Thanks for reading, Flame away.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Taylor on July 14, 2013 at 4:30pm

Good question Rich. Part of the problem is the way the coaches are set up. As you know  bikes are only allowed in cars with the wheelchair lift a.k.a. the ADA cars. They are interspersed throughout the train. Most trains are supposed to have at least 2 of those cars, prefferably on either end of the train to facilitate wheelchair boarding in either direction. In a perfect world that would be the norm but a lot of times they trains arent set up that way, especially on weekends. So say you have a 7 car train and the bike car is 2nd from the engine, along with 2 other open cars. That bike car fills up along with the 2 other open cars you are running with on that trip. Now 2 more bikes need to board but the only other bike car is the last car in the train , or 3 closed  cars away . Now the conductor has to open 2 closed cars plus the other bike car to board those bikes. Hes now running all 7 cars open ( or at least 6) when the boarding dictates only 3 "needing" to be opened , except for the 2 bikes that now want to board. Now Metras policy is , yes open that far car until you reach capacity for bikes. While I don't want to say the additional bikes would be denied boarding, I will say most times the crew wouldnt be very happy about doing it as it creates logistical problems having the extra cars open with only a couple people in each of those extra cars. So personally, I would do it but begrudgingly. Heres something to keep in mind though. In the example I just cited, if I had 7 cars in one bike car, and I opened up that additional car for 3 more bikes to make 10, and that happened to be the max allowed for that train. You may be on the platform with your bike and see that head car I just opened for the 3 additional bikes might be very empty except for those 3 bikes and a few people in there. So I would tell you we are full on bikes and you would say no way look at all the room you have in that car. Bottom line is if 10 were capacity for that train I still wouldnt let you board even though we have room and thats totally within the rules. Who knows, we may get 3 wheelchairs on at the next stop and then I would need that room where I put your "extra" bike over capacity and you would have to get off anyway. Hope that makes it a bit clearer. 

Rich S said:

I've had nothing but good experiences from Metra conductors.  I've always had a bungee and just been nice to them.  Last fall there was a group of us that picked up the Metra at Flossmoor and the conductor was nice enough to open a car for us since the cars up front were crowded.  

Which leads me to my question.  Steve, are you aware of any instances where a conductor denied a biker boarding even when there were train cars that could still be opened?  I've noticed that conductors are sometimes very reluctant to open additional cars.  It's understandable because there's more train to manage but I would write to complain if I was denied boarding a train that still had dark cars.  

Permalink Reply by Steve Taylor on July 14, 2013 at 4:42pm

On a personal note, for the few who have commented on my job  let me be clear. I like what I do, I came here to post about it to hopefully shed some light on a few of the questions , problems people have had with  bikes on trains to try and clear them up and yes , give my personal opinion on them. Sorry if its not p.c. or anything. This has been a nightmare for both sides since it started and hopefully Im giving you guys a little better perspective when you do run into that conductor who seems a little grumpy when you bring your bike on board as to why I...I mean he may be acting that way. Im not quitting my job because of it, matter of fact the more I read in this thread the angrier I am with management rather than the cyclist . Couple of suggestions here seem to make sense but folks you have to keep in mind things like removing seats for bikes ( wont happen), buying special coaches with hooks, having 1 coach totally dedicated for bikes isnt going to happen anytime soon. Metra uses every available coach they have right now, they have zero money to build additional ones and the ones they do buy will be to move people, not bikes. These are things they shouldve done BEFORE they allowed bikes on trains instead of trying to shoehorn them in on the equipment they were already using with zero modifications / allowances for them. Its truly dumbfuckery to the highest order.

Permalink Reply by Steve Weeks on July 14, 2013 at 5:11pm

It wouldn't be permissible to put the bikes on the outside of the train cars because there are very strict limitations to the maximum width of the cars for clearance purposes. At most they could be hung on the front or back end, but I wouldn't want *my* bike there, if for no other consideration than its being exposed to the elements (and sometimes the trains get other stuff on them that you wouldn't want on your bike!).

Eventually there has to be dedicated space inside the train, optimized for getting the bikes on and off quickly.

Of course, there is the "folder" option in the meantime. :-)

Steve

SlowCoachOnTheRoad said:

...surely it would be easy enough to add a bunch of clasping hooks to the edge of trains that bikes could just be placed on by biking passengers (like the ones we use when we carry our bikes on the back of our cars, but more user friendly so that train schedules aren't seriously  impacted) - say 4 bikes per carriage?

Permalink Reply by bobweiser on July 15, 2013 at 12:03am

+1

i'm up for doing something, anybody else?

notoriousDUG said:

Complaining without doing something about it is nothing but bitching and that never got anybody anywhere.

Permalink Reply by igz on July 15, 2013 at 11:36am

im up for scheming up options to address the issues.  but we would be largely preaching to the choir if we didnt have the immediate audience of a representative from Metra. we need a meaningful conversation, need to know budgets, need to know non-negotiables on their terms, need to know real costs associated with some of this stuff.

Steven, thank you for reconsidering the source of your frustration. as i mentioned earlier, we side with you on this. we are not the enemy, and the enemy of our enemy is our friend.  not that Metra management is truly an enemy, but it is the source of that frustration.

i really dont want to take away from people who casually or recreationally use bikes on Metra, but as a matter of policy implementation, maybe we can start with commuters, daily bike/train users. if there was a way to identify these users, they would have exclusive permit to the train (while following the too full policy). this is easy with a monthly pass (which most bike commuters use), have a B stamped on it as that permit, or sell a separate "black out pass" for such individuals (while maintaining the too full policy).  Metra also needs to review ridership numbers on each train during these events. i know these hard fact data will show that a blanket policy is not the right move and it might even show lost revenue potential.

this will only help further understand the need for bike accommodation.  right now, i doubt there is any to use as evidence to show there is a need.  its not a fix, but i think a step in the right direction.


robert hsiung said:

+1

i'm up for doing something, anybody else?

notoriousDUG said:

Complaining without doing something about it is nothing but bitching and that never got anybody anywhere.

Permalink Reply by bobweiser on July 16, 2013 at 12:00am

great, that's 2 of us. i was thinking it would be nice to start with a committee that included representatives from a range of stakeholders. there's conductors, commuters, recreational riders, and i guess passengers. i'm a recreational rider. how about you?

anybody else want to be part of the solution?

igz said:

im up for scheming up options to address the issues.  but we would be largely preaching to the choir if we didnt have the immediate audience of a representative from Metra.


robert hsiung said:

+1

i'm up for doing something, anybody else?

notoriousDUG said:

Complaining without doing something about it is nothing but bitching and that never got anybody anywhere.

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on July 16, 2013 at 6:14am

I guess you haven't ridden an inbound Rock Island train on a weekend.  I regularly see passengers who bring bikes from as far as Joliet to ride in the city.

Cameron 7.5 mi said:

I wouldn't expect Divvy to have much impact. From my antidotal evidence, most of the passengers brining bikes are city residents headed for a suburban destination so Divvy wouldn't help them.

Karen Laner said:

I'm interested in whether or not the DIVVY system affects the number of bikes on Metra. Perhaps a discussion next summer on this?

Permalink Reply by igz on July 16, 2013 at 9:01am

i had a meaningful conversation with one of my inbound conductors yesterday. i asked him "do you hate bikes"? he responds "yes!. im assuming you wanted an honest answer". i did, and i got one.

but he was quick to clarify his position.

"you know, i dont hate you guys, you commuters. you have your shit together, you are organized. you have your bungees, you know what order everyone is getting on and off. i dont have to worry about you guys".

it seems this theme resonates throughout the conductorship.  its the uneducated on the matter that cause issues.  i mentioned that Metra struggles at communicating their policies, blackouts, etc. and he asked "does it". i realized i wasnt 100% certain, so i promised i would try to find that info, how easy/difficult it would be.

i went to the metrarail.com site. i starred at the screen for a bit. nothing about bikes. not a word, not an icon. (a big bicycle graphic would be perfect - click on me!). i kept scanning. then, on the top menu - "Riding Metra". ok, yes i want to ride metra. click. scan scan scan - ah, there - third from last on the side bar - "Bikes on Trains".  

maybe not entirely intuitive (which i unfortunately do believe we need to dumb everything down that is accessed by the general public), but its there, just two clicks away once on the site. i still think a big bicycle graphic that links to that page would be great.

but that link does give you all the details (though larger print would be helpful). you have a list of blackout dates, age restrictions, ADA provisions and bike amount allowance on each train (not to be confused with train car), and a list of 14 additional rules, all of which are reasonable (except 5 - which is open to subjectivity; and 6 - what if you cant lift a bike up them steep stairs, just help the old lady out).

its not unreasonable for a metra user to look this info up.  but getting them to understand they need to look this info up is another story

Permalink Reply by Steve Taylor on July 16, 2013 at 12:46pm
That's just it is that here we are 5 years into the program and my conservative estimate is 6 out of 10 riders with bikes have zero clue about those conditions . I can't believe how many still get on without a chain or bungee. Obviously there's a breakdown in the dissemination of the information and that's where a good majority of the problem lay. The suggestion of additional signage at stations down the line may help a bit but based on how many sheeple I get on my train daily who walk by a giant lit up board detailing what stops the train will be making in addition to the predeparture detailing what stops we make and still manage to get on a train that doesn't stop where they want to get off lends me to believe that they aren't paying much attention anyway and wouldn't see any sign. The bike icon on the website is a solid idea though.
Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on July 16, 2013 at 1:51pm

Exactly. Once someone finds that page, it is fairly clear and informative, but it takes a bit of searching to get there. I like the idea of having a bike icon on the home page.

I also hear Steve Taylor's point about how many people are clueless even when ample information is provided.  I'd consider that a problem in general, not specific to Metra.

As someone who often takes a bike on the train on evenings and weekends, I often find it frustrating to deal with other cyclists who don't have a clue, so I sympathize with the conductors on this.  In the early days of bikes being allowed on Metra, I remember most conductors telling cyclists they didn't know (before boarding the train) that they MUST have a bungee cord to secure their bikes, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed on the train.  With all the problems I've encountered with unsecured bikes and clueless people in recent months, I wouldn't mind a return to that policy.

igz said:

..."you know, i dont hate you guys, you commuters. you have your shit together, you are organized. you have your bungees, you know what order everyone is getting on and off. i dont have to worry about you guys".

... its the uneducated on the matter that cause issues. ...

i went to the metrarail.com site. i starred at the screen for a bit. nothing about bikes. not a word, not an icon. (a big bicycle graphic would be perfect - click on me!). i kept scanning. then, on the top menu - "Riding Metra". ok, yes i want to ride metra. click. scan scan scan - ah, there - third from last on the side bar - "Bikes on Trains". 

Permalink Reply by Steve Taylor on July 16, 2013 at 2:07pm
That policy is still in effect but mamy of my coworkers don't enforce it. I've taken to asking and making cyclists show me how they plan on securing their bike before ill let them board at all. For those who think I'm being a hardass let me say that the rules state bungee or chain. That's it. However people have used belts, shoelaces, a plastic bag as tie downs and we really aren't supposed to let that happen. Bungee or chain and that's it.
Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on July 16, 2013 at 2:32pm

I've seen people do half-a@#ed jobs of securing their bikes with belts, shoelaces, plastic bags and other things.  It usually doesn't work so well.  U-locks sometimes work better, depending on exactly how they're used.

I remember being asked to show my bungee cord before boarding in the early days.  I usually have it in hand as the train approaches, so if the conductor is one who doesn't know me, he/she knows that I know the drill.

"my conservative estimate is 6 out of 10 riders with bikes have zero clue"

I'd agree with your estimate.

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