Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tricolor on April 19, 2013 at 8:42am

Thunder Snow said:

True. Or just drive the old ones British-style, reversed from the car flow, like UP North Metra trains.

I think that's because the Chicago and North Western was one of the few (if not only) left-hand railroads in the US.  A real historical quirk that I suspect continues because Metra trains are the main users, the equipment dates back to the days of CNW's independence, and UP doesn't use the line enough for freight to justify switching all the signaling and other infrastructure to match the rest of the system.

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Permalink Reply by spencewine on April 19, 2013 at 8:55am

Having lived on Ashland or one street over for the last 5 years, I'm very excited for this. Hopefully, it will help diminish/calm traffic while still provide a way to move rapidly on it. I can't begin to count the number of accidents I've seen in the last 5 years on Ashland... some of them really bad (30-40mph+). Also, having rapid transit  at near doorstep will be kinda nice :)

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Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on April 19, 2013 at 8:55am

As I understand it, BRT IS being positioned as a new mode somewhere between a bus and train: longer distances between stops, fewer stops, traffic priority (the red lights turn green when they approach), pre-ticketed boarding (no more standing behind the guy fishing for nickels in all his pockets).  Current buses have to stop for red lights, get bogged down in traffic jams and have to constantly re-merge into traffic from the curbside stops.  BRT is supposed to fix all this (though the proof is in the puddin').

h' 1.0 said:

Seems like people are discussing this as if it's a new train line.

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Permalink Reply by spencewine on April 19, 2013 at 9:05am

Why BRT on Ashland?

There are many reasons why Ashland Avenue is a good corridor for implementing Bus Rapid Transit (BRT)—it has high transit demand, it connects many parts of the city, and its physical layout is compatible with BRT improvements.

Ashland Avenue has the highest bus ridership of all CTA routes, with 10 million boardings in 2012—more than 31,000 per weekday. Currently, 1 in 4 households located within walking distance of Ashland Avenue do not have a car. Ashland BRT would provide a transit option about as fast as driving for neighborhood residents, with an up to 83% increase in bus speeds during peak periods, and a 50% improvement in reliability.

Ashland BRT would connect with seven CTA ‘L’ stations, two Metra stations, and 37 bus routes, and provide a much-needed north-south transit connection outside of the downtown area. The Ashland corridor provides access to nearly 133,800 jobs, including large employment centers such as the Illinois Medical District, and serves popular destinations like UIC, Malcolm X College, and the United Center. There are also 99 schools within walking distance of the proposed Ashland BRT.

At 70-feet curb-to-curb, Ashland Avenue is wide enough to construct BRT. The proposal to construct BRT includes streetscape improvements that would increase safety and pedestrian comfort, including improved lighting, ADA ramps, platforms that provide pedestrian refuge when crossing the street, and fewer left-hand turns, which are a major cause of vehicle accidents.

Why Ashland?

h' 1.0 said:

Seems like people are discussing this as if it's a new train line.  It's still just a bus that will maybe be 50% faster than riding the bus is now, but leave you with less flexibility for where to get on and off.  So not sure how much real world advantage there will be for connecting the spokes of the current train system.  It'll be nice for some people who already use the Ashland bus, assuming their start and end locations are near the access points.

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Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on April 19, 2013 at 9:30am

"It's still just a bus..."

h' 1.0 said:

Yes, I've been following it and have attended info sessions. Did something I wrote indicate I didn't have a basic understanding of it?

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Permalink Reply by Mike Zumwalt on April 19, 2013 at 9:33am

I'm confused? 

They eliminated the Xpress bus on Western a year or 2 back now are proposing another type on a smaller street with nice mature street scaping in the middle, getting rid of that and re doing it?

A day pass is $10 a one way trip from O'Hare is $5 (unless you work there).

The new Ventra system is going to cost riders even more unless you link it to a credit/debit card.

When they pass this along how much will it cost to ride the CTA?

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Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on April 19, 2013 at 9:39am

Several times a week, if not more.  No, I'm not a daily commuter.

h' 1.0 said:

Spence, Cameron, Thunder-- how often do you guys ride buses?

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Permalink Reply by spencewine on April 19, 2013 at 9:44am

I'm not sure why your question is even remotely relevant, but for the majority of the last 10 years I would ride daily, now maybe 8-10X a month.
 
h' 1.0 said:

Spence, Cameron, Thunder-- how often do you guys ride buses?

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Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on April 19, 2013 at 9:50am

I don't use the Ashland bus all that much, because on the North Side, it's often walking distance from Ashland to the Red, Brown or Purple.  If I was standing at Ashland & Belmont, intending to head to Rogers Park or Evanston, I'd walk down to the L rather than poke along on the Ashland bus and then have to change at Clark & Grace where it stops.  With BRT, I may be inclined to head up Ashland.  I'd be even more inclined if the Ashland BRT eventually connected to the Yellow Line at Western/Asbury, a block north of Howard. We'll see.

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Permalink Reply by spencewine on April 19, 2013 at 9:53am

So what exactly is your abstract point? That this is a slightly faster bus that requires longer walking times and it will decrease ridership? Because that's the only thing I see being argued and it's not abstract. Look at Active Trans handy-dandy info graphic. This bus has the potential to rival the orange-line in ridership...it's a little more than just a "slightly faster bus". Oddly, ridership greatly increased on this slightly faster bus in places like Cleveland and Eugene. Maybe you just know something that we don't?
 
h' 1.0 said:

Thank you, but I understand these things and I can quote you exact projections from memory on how much it was supposed to speed up bus travel on Western Ave if you're interested.

There may be discussions in which it's possible to get a somewhat abstract point across, but it doesn't look like this is going to be one of them.

spencewine said:

Why BRT on Ashland?

There are many reasons why Ashland Avenue is a good corridor for implementing Bus Rapid Transit (BRT)—it has high transit demand, it connects many parts of the city, and its physical layout is compatible with BRT improvements.

Ashland Avenue has the highest bus ridership of all CTA routes, with 10 million boardings in 2012—more than 31,000 per weekday. Currently, 1 in 4 households located within walking distance of Ashland Avenue do not have a car. Ashland BRT would provide a transit option about as fast as driving for neighborhood residents, with an up to 83% increase in bus speeds during peak periods, and a 50% improvement in reliability.

Ashland BRT would connect with seven CTA ‘L’ stations, two Metra stations, and 37 bus routes, and provide a much-needed north-south transit connection outside of the downtown area. The Ashland corridor provides access to nearly 133,800 jobs, including large employment centers such as the Illinois Medical District, and serves popular destinations like UIC, Malcolm X College, and the United Center. There are also 99 schools within walking distance of the proposed Ashland BRT.

At 70-feet curb-to-curb, Ashland Avenue is wide enough to construct BRT. The proposal to construct BRT includes streetscape improvements that would increase safety and pedestrian comfort, including improved lighting, ADA ramps, platforms that provide pedestrian refuge when crossing the street, and fewer left-hand turns, which are a major cause of vehicle accidents.

Why Ashland?

h' 1.0 said:

Seems like people are discussing this as if it's a new train line.  It's still just a bus that will maybe be 50% faster than riding the bus is now, but leave you with less flexibility for where to get on and off.  So not sure how much real world advantage there will be for connecting the spokes of the current train system.  It'll be nice for some people who already use the Ashland bus, assuming their start and end locations are near the access points.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Zumwalt on April 19, 2013 at 9:53am

(edit time ran out) but according to the CTA site several designs are proposed and even though it says BUS only, traffic will still use it so cars will block buses at lights or for turns and not a mention of a bike lane.

Much like the "protected" bike lanes unless there is a permanent solid barrier between the lane and traffic all it is, is a bunch of paint and symbols.

http://www.transitchicago.com/westernashlandbrt/

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Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on April 19, 2013 at 10:05am

That's disappointing news, Mike.  Perhaps the red light cameras can pick up the license plate numbers of motorists trespassing in BRT lanes?

Mike Zumwalt said:

(edit time ran out) but according to the CTA site several designs are proposed and even though it says BUS only, traffic will still use it so cars will block buses at lights or for turns and not a mention of a bike lane.

Much like the "protected" bike lanes unless there is a permanent solid barrier between the lane and traffic all it is, is a bunch of paint and symbols.

http://www.transitchicago.com/westernashlandbrt/

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