Critics say CTA favors profits over poor with new system (Trib Article)

The CTA was accused of putting the profits of its corporate partners ahead of the needs of poor people during a hearing Monday night on a new fare-payment system set to debut this summer. Jon Hilkevitch reports about it here.

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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on March 20, 2013 at 7:24am

Here's more from today's Tribune - about reduced fare Ventra cards and the breakdown on various fees.

Lowlights:  "In addition to the $5-a-month "dormancy fee'' that the CTA board approved last week — to be charged to Ventra transit-fare accounts that are inactive for 18 months — the prepaid debit side of the card will be charged $2 a month after 18 months if no retail purchases or money transfers into the account are made, officials said."

"If you are a Ventra customer who becomes fed up with all the ancillary charges and want out, or say you simply move to North Dakota and don't need a CTA Ventra card anymore, you will be assessed a $6 "Balance Refund Fee'' to receive a check in the mail for the remaining money on your Ventra account — minus the $6."

"Ventra debit account customers will also be charged a $2.95 "Reload on Internet'' fee each time they add money to the retail side of Ventra cards using a personal credit card. The $2.95 fee is not charged if a credit card is used to purchase transit fares or passes, officials said.

Use your Ventra debit account to withdraw cash at an ATM? A $1.50 service fee will be tacked on, regardless of where you do your banking. The CTA's banking partner in the Ventra system is MetaBank, a specialty financial institution."

Permalink Reply by MagMileMarauder on March 20, 2013 at 7:32am

The 75 cents fee I mentioned is small fries compared to all those fees.

Permalink Reply by Lizzy M. on March 20, 2013 at 7:41am

This conversation is very interesting to me--largely because I don't see anyone raising the objection I hear most from my friends who (me included) absolutely refuse to use their credit or debit card as a fare card. They don't want to be fumbling with their wallet/yanking a credit card out of the depths of a purse/bag to board the bus and the alternative of keeping a credit card/debit card in an easily accessible exterior pocket or generally carting it around like a fare card is not in the least appealing.

It's inconvenient and irritating if/when I lose my CTA card. It's nothing compared to the hassles we've had (three times in the last year) when a credit card is lost or stolen. Also, I'm really happy to leave my CTA card for the cat/house sitter when I'm out of town or a houseguest while I'm biking to work, but I'm not doing that with a credit card.

I'm still not entirely sure whether or not there will be a card that is just a fare card, nothing else, which, frankly, is what I want.

Permalink Reply by Crazy David 84 Furlongs on March 20, 2013 at 7:56am

That's a great point.  And adding to that, the credit/debit cards will be RIFD scanable.  Thus an identify thief with a portable (and disguised) RIFD scanner could see who comes in using a credit card, notice where it is stuck (assuming that you dont' want to pull your wallet out in a crowd), and "bump" into you and scan the card.   I, so far, have managed to avoid having any of my cards being RIFD.   But the risk is real.  Here's an article from C-Net that says the range for a credit card may be a few feet.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3513_7-6658127-1.html

That alone is a good reason NOT to get the Debit card feature of the Ventra Card.  

Lizzy M. said:

This conversation is very interesting to me--largely because I don't see anyone raising the objection I hear most from my friends who (me included) absolutely refuse to use their credit or debit card as a fare card. They don't want to be fumbling with their wallet/yanking a credit card out of the depths of a purse/bag to board the bus and the alternative of keeping a credit card/debit card in an easily accessible exterior pocket or generally carting it around like a fare card is not in the least appealing.

It's inconvenient and irritating if/when I lose my CTA card. It's nothing compared to the hassles we've had (three times in the last year) when a credit card is lost or stolen. Also, I'm really happy to leave my CTA card for the cat/house sitter when I'm out of town or a houseguest while I'm biking to work, but I'm not doing that with a credit card.

I'm still not entirely sure whether or not there will be a card that is just a fare card, nothing else, which, frankly, is what I want.

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on March 20, 2013 at 8:43am

Reading these stories, that's about how it sounds to me - a deal with the devil to save on fare collection costs.

Cameron 7.5 mi said:

The CTA's banking partner MetaBank sounds like an predatory financial institution and all around terrible company. They have a history of having banking regulators shut down various programs for deceptive trade practices. The CTA seems to have rather stupidly gone out on a limb by becoming the public face of what sounds like a rather shady bank.


Anne Alt said:

Use your Ventra debit account to withdraw cash at an ATM? A $1.50 service fee will be tacked on, regardless of where you do your banking. The CTA's banking partner in the Ventra system is MetaBank, a specialty financial institution."

Permalink Reply by WillG on March 20, 2013 at 8:44am

Tony, fyi, you can add funds to a Chicago Card Plus with any credit card, I've done it tens of times.
Tony Adams 6.6 mi said:

I seethe with despair at my Chicago Card Plus. I get it loaded with pre-tax funds about once a year ($30 covers me for ALMOST a year usually).

But, unless I'm missing something, I can't add my own funds to the card, so when it runs out I have to re-order the transit funds which invariably takes several weeks to go through. Why can't I add funds to the damn thing myself?

I also hate the fact that the only way to check one's balance is to log into some web site that i use exactly once a year and therefore of course forget/lose the login credentials.

There may have been technological reasons for having two different cards, but those should have just been fixed. Foisting all these separate cards which have essentially the same function on riders was a huge disservice.


h' 1.0 said:

Are you referring to the current CTA system?

I've been happily using a Chicago Card Plus for maybe 6 years, and I don't have to take it out of my wallet or out of my pocket at train turnstyles.

James BlackHeron said:

The toll network is pretty terrible.

So far I've gotten by without hooking my credit card to it yet. I just buy the "gift" cards and add them manually to the transponder via the phone method (they don't let you do that online.)

If the card was anonymous and one could just add money at a pay station like the current swipe card I would call it a big improvement.   

I do not like taking my wallet out at the turnstiles and if I don't keep the card in my wallet I lose it.

As it is I am constantly misplacing the cards because I stuff them back into a random pocket and the next time i go to take the train I have to buy a new one.  Then I end up with multiple cards in my wallet and sometimes forget which card I used on the last trip and end up screwing myself out of transfer discounts because I use a different card at the next stop.


An NFC system would allow you to keep your card in your wallet and your wallet in your pocket as you brush your pocket against the reader. 

Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on March 26, 2013 at 6:56am

http://chicagoist.com/2013/03/26/cta_drops_2_ventra_card_fees.php

Well, the CTA is listening.  They've just dropped 2 of the more egregious fees, the $10/hour "research" & $2.95 accout-reloading-by-credit-card. The bad news: Ventra can reinstate those 2 fees "at any time." Sheesh.

Permalink Reply by Jeremy on March 26, 2013 at 7:52am

I think the bad news is a little deeper into the article when it's mentioned that the projected yearly cost of using the ventra card is a whopping $188 a year.  WTF?   This sounds like a TERRIBLE deal!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-ventra-debit-deal-0...

Permalink Reply by S on March 26, 2013 at 10:02am

That $188 cost is only if you use the debit card features.  

Jeremy said:

I think the bad news is a little deeper into the article when it's mentioned that the projected yearly cost of using the ventra card is a whopping $188 a year.  WTF?   This sounds like a TERRIBLE deal!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-ventra-debit-deal-0...

Permalink Reply by Crazy David 84 Furlongs on March 26, 2013 at 11:52am

The big danger is that it is the nose under the tent.   In 2002 the U.S. Congress passed a law imposing numerous registration requirements on food producers in order to protect the food supply from the threat of bioterrorism.  At the time that it passed, many many people argued that it was overly burdensome and the first step to a far more intrusive system of over regulation.   The FDA, at the time, insisted that it was for the limited purpose of protecting the food supply from a terrorist attack (which has never happened, any attack would not come in a way that this would provide any protection, and was thus solving a problem which did not exist).  The law had many abusrd provisions, and, for example, technically requires a father who stores 20 cases of girl scout cookies in his office for her to take and sell downtown to register....  

Move forward to 2010.  The FDA has now modified its controls and taken the bioterrorism rules and widened and broadened them into an incredible witches brew of regulation.   These rules took effect earlier this year.   Just watch all sorts of imported food delicacies disappear from the shelves as foreign companies react.   It has already, for example, been used to strip the shelves of "british Twinings Tea" and any product of Fortnum and Mason....

Anyone who things that the Ventra Card isn't going to end up with massive fees even when used as a transit card is dreaming.  Think the Parking Meter/Parking lot scam was bad?   This one's going to be worse and I am guessing it is littered with poison pills.

S said:

That $188 cost is only if you use the debit card features.  

Jeremy said:

I think the bad news is a little deeper into the article when it's mentioned that the projected yearly cost of using the ventra card is a whopping $188 a year.  WTF?   This sounds like a TERRIBLE deal!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-ventra-debit-deal-0...

Permalink Reply by Liz on March 26, 2013 at 5:55pm

Looking into non debit card fees, there will be a $1.50 fee for commuter benefits,  in many cases this will negate any tax benefits received. 

S said:

That $188 cost is only if you use the debit card features.  

Jeremy said:

I think the bad news is a little deeper into the article when it's mentioned that the projected yearly cost of using the ventra card is a whopping $188 a year.  WTF?   This sounds like a TERRIBLE deal!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-ventra-debit-deal-0...

Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on March 27, 2013 at 2:32am

Because "Our Greedy Gotcha Fee" sounded too avaricious even for Ventra.

h' 1.0 said:

Why is it referred to above as an "account reloading by credit card" fee?

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