Cutting 6 way intersections - why?

As the number bike commuters increase with the warmer weather, I can't help but notice more people cutting partially through the 6-way intersections before their respective light turns green. I admit that this was something I frequently did in the past (and still occasionally do at particularly dangerous intersections) but have largely stopped as I perceive it to have little, if any benefit. Since I've started waiting for the light to turn green before going ahead, I'm now passing 9 out of 10 people who try to cut through early (which typically puts me further into car traffic in order to make a safe pass). I mentioned my frustration to a commuter buddy a couple of days ago and she commented that she'd recently started doing this because she'd seen others doing the same thing.

Is this something you do and if so, why?

Is there any polite way to encourage people not to cut the intersections?

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Permalink Reply by blair on March 1, 2012 at 1:24pm

I agree with Kevin on most of this.  It's not a habit of mine, but there are certain intersections where it makes the cyclist more visible.  Nothing to do with trying to be faster.

The only intersection I regularly do this in (and 75% of my commute is on Milwaukee with plenty of these "6 corners") is Halsted/Grand/Milwaukee heading north.  If I sit at the first light, Grand, the bike lane has just ended and I'm now in the middle of a right turn lane.  I only go up to the next light, Halsted, when the pedestrians beside me have the right of way so cars should be yielding anyway.  I even stay stopped at the second light when 4-5 cars usually blow the red light heading north on Halsted.

If anything, I think cutting through an intersection like this is 1) more safe and 2) more courteous to motorists.  Surprisingly, this is one of the few parts of my daily commute I haven't had encountered an angry driver.

Don't think there's anything self-centered about this approach.  

Wouldn't the faster cyclists that are being "pushed into traffic" be behind the cyclists cutting the light already?  So whether the cyclist ahead of you cut the intersection or not, you'd still be in a position where you'd need to pass or follow slowly behind until you could, right?

Neils - why do you need to convince others to ride differently when you admit you still do it occasionally?

Permalink Reply by David P. on March 1, 2012 at 3:39pm

I suspect there are three things various people are talking about:

1) 'leading' (so to speak' the intersection while waiting at a red - creating your own bike box, in someone else's words.

2)Going halfway through a 6-way once the cycle for the next street in the clockwise light rotation has completed (e.g. you're going N on Milwaukee and you cross Grand and wait at Halsted)

3)Doing sort of modified box-turn at six-ways to beat your light cycle. E.g. you're going N on Milwaukee and you cross Milwaukee and Halsted when Grand has the light, then cross Grand and continue on Milwaukee when Halsted has the light.

I think the OP is talking about 2) or 3), but I'm not sure which. 

I have done 3) on occasion, but it's mostly been due to impatience so I've largely stopped. I usually just wait at my light, but I do often do 2) for the same reasons that JamesBlackHeron gave. The other evening at Milwaukee/Kimball/Diversey I was at the head of the line on the right and a taxi pulled up next to me on the left determined to try to pull ahead of me on the green and make a right turn across my path, so I crossed Diversey when Kimball had the light to get myself away from him and also ahead of traffic when my light went green. In some intersections, like this one, I will do this because there is a pinch point on the other side of the intersection (in this case, street parking and in particular a liquor store that people are always taking the non-spot in front of) and getting halfway through the intersection before my light turns green lets me get past this point and take my place in the lane rather than arriving there at the same time as the motorized drag race.

David

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on March 1, 2012 at 5:38pm

I omitted another benefit that keeps me safer and improves the flow of traffic. When I'm NB on Milwaukee at Grand/Halsted, I sneak across stopped traffic at Grand and wait in front of WB Grand traffic while Halsted traffic has the green. When the Milwaukee light goes green, I have a great view of any NB Halsted traffic that's racing their red light. At this point, my 60 or so foot "head start" enables me to cross Halsted so that I've completely cleared the intersection by the time the NB Milwaukee traffic that wants to make the soft right onto NB Halsted gets there. They don't have to dodge bikes. I don't have to dodge them. Better for everyone. (David's 2) above.)

Permalink Reply by igz on March 1, 2012 at 5:54pm

this is no different than 4 way intersections when trying to make a left, coming from the far right of the street, a ton of incoming traffic, etc.  just pull to the street light of the left bound traffic and hold back a while. just because there are more angles, and an extra street, dont make it different.  it a move of prudence and positioning.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 2, 2012 at 2:09am

Kevin just said everything I feel needs to be said on the subject...

Kevin C said:

Road users mostly just want traffic to be predictable, and want traffic to keep moving. Cutting one of the intersections at a 6-way intersection furthers those goals.

If there's no more room to wait at the "cut" intersection, I agree it would be prudent for additional bike riders to refrain from doing so, but at an intersection like Grand/Milwaukee/Halsted, I would estimate that "n" would have to be greater than 8. 

NOT cutting the intersection does nothing to change the inevitable Cat 6 commuter race with faster riders inevitably (and in some case repeatedly) overtaking slower riders.

Other road users' disdain should be partly appeased by the fact that you're not performing the maneuver to run the red light in your direction of travel, you're doing it because it makes you more visible, and actually makes it a little easier for the motor vehicle traffic to clear the intersection. You don't actually cross the second intersection until your original red light turns green.

This turn is actually a variant of a "box turn" as set forth in Mr. Bike's "Urban Biker's Tips and Tricks." 

Neils said:

Hey Melanie! Funny to have our stoplight conversation continue online...

It sounds like those of you who do cut the 6-ways are doing it for the perceived safety angle. I can wholeheartedly agree with wanting to be in the front on the idle traffic but I'm not entirely sold on the merits of cutting part-way through the intersections. Although cutting the intersection does give greater visibility and a head start over the idle cars, I can't help but think of at least a few negatives which may outweigh any benefits:

  • Cutting of intersections doesn't seem to scale well as not all cyclists can necessarily fit in the middle of the intersection or they simply choose not to.
  • Faster cyclists who choose not to cut end up being pushed out into traffic as they pass the slower cutters.
  • It gives motorists yet another reason to think that cyclists don't obey the traffic laws.

I'd be more inclined to take a logical/safe approach over a legal approach to riding any day, I'm just not convinced that this doesn't do more harm than good. For those of you who do cut, is there anything that could be said to convince you otherwise?

Permalink Reply by Barclor on March 2, 2012 at 7:45am

Yes, until the faster cyclist has passed the slower one and is now waiting at the 6 way and didn't cut the intersection, and the slower rider passes the faster one to cut. Now the faster rider has to pass the slower rider again....as a faster rider who doesn't cut the intersection, this is a pet-peeve of mine.

122782_ said:


Wouldn't the faster cyclists that are being "pushed into traffic" be behind the cyclists cutting the light already?  So whether the cyclist ahead of you cut the intersection or not, you'd still be in a position where you'd need to pass or follow slowly behind until you could, right?

Permalink Reply by blair on March 2, 2012 at 7:52am

I run into situations like this all of the time at intersections without anyone cutting the intersection.  I pass someone, get stopped by a light, the person I passed scoots in front of me at the light, I pass them again and it all repeats every stop light we get caught at.  Something I'll never understand.  Makes it less safe for everyone.

I know I'm not speaking for everyone that cuts intersections here, but I accelerate pretty quickly and ride to the right in case someone has built up speed quicker than me.

Barclor said:

Yes, until the faster cyclist has passed the slower one and is now waiting at the 6 way and didn't cut the intersection, and the slower rider passes the faster one to cut. Now the faster rider has to pass the slower rider again....as a faster rider who doesn't cut the intersection, this is a pet-peeve of mine.

Permalink Reply by David of the North (David606xx) on March 2, 2012 at 8:31am

Not all of these intersections are equal, it's about knowing the lights sequence for each.  I ride Clark every day and there're a couple of intersections where cutting with the green leaves you no advantage whatsoever, but one where I can safely sail through on a red.   The lights are set up to regulate car flow, it's on us to figure out where the pockets are.  For me, that's sometimes down the center line or even in the oncoming lane--wherever the cars aren't, I can ride free.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on March 2, 2012 at 8:59am

I don't see what all this road-rage is about regarding the way other people ride and being passed and whatnot.

If you don't want to cut the intersection and feel the need to boot-lick badge-sniff, and be a good little honest law-abiding citizen no matter how stupid the rules are, then fine.  People are going to pass you while you sit at the light like a good little lamb -and you might have to pass them back.

Deal with it, this is not a race out there. There are no trophies for getting to work first, or getting the fastest lap times.   We are all just trying to stay alive the best we can and it seems that some people have different opinions about what they feel is safe -or right, regardless of what the "law" says. 

I ride just about everywhere unless my wife is coming (she's not much of a rider and doesn't do winter riding at all) and I feel I have a pretty good sense of what is safe and what is not safe.  I'm not going to make myself unsafe just to make someone else feel better that I'm not breaking some stupid law.  If someone else thinks the law is all special and holy writ handed down by gods and not stupid men being paid off by large corporations who fund their elections then good for them.  I know better.

I'll break the law to make myself safe.  If I get caught and/or fined by the PO-lice then that's good for them too.  They can paint another bicycle silhouette on the side of their car door like how fighter pilots track their kills.  But it isn't the job of joe citizen to be a cop or to make sure other people obey stupid silly laws.  If you want to be a cop then sell your soul to the devil and attend the PO-lice academy.  Otherwise stop worrying about it. 

Permalink Reply by Barclor on March 2, 2012 at 9:15am

wow. It wasn't a comment about breaking the law vs being a 'boot-licking badge-sniffer'. I was simply stating my frustration with people who feel the need to pass someone who just took the lane to pass them. I respect the people who ride faster then me and wait behind them at the light, knowing that they will pass me back if I go first...AND by doing so, I'm giving them a safer route rather than making them take the lane to pass me, yet again.

And if it's not a race and there are no trophies (which I agree with) then why do you need to cut in front of me at the light anyways?

Congrats on riding every where and knowing the rules of being safe.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on March 2, 2012 at 9:25am

Everyone knowing the rules...

The number one rule I know about being safe is not getting hit by one of those rolling metal boxes on the road.

Getting hit by one of those rolling metal boxes is going to FN hurt like hell.  It might even kill you.  Don't let them hit you.  Period.

That's my rule, I'll do whatever it takes to not get hit by one of those rolling boxes by not being where they are more likely to hit me if I can help it and it doesn't hurt anyone else -hurt feelings don't count.  If I make batman cry because I'm not following the holy law then that's batman's problem.

Permalink Reply by Duppie on March 2, 2012 at 9:31am

Absolutely agree with the fact that your own safety is more important than anything else.

But I don't believe that cutting one crossing on a six way intersection improves my own safety.  I have to bike with the pedestrian light (cars don't expect me there) and I end up standing at a corner somewhere in the middle of the intersection.

James BlackHeron said:

Everyone knowing the rules...

The number one rule I know about being safe is not getting hit by one of those rolling metal boxes on the road.

Getting hit by one of those rolling metal boxes is going to FN hurt like hell.  It might even kill you.  Don't let them hit you.  Period.

That's my rule, I'll do whatever it takes to not get hit by one of those rolling boxes by not being where they are more likely to hit me if I can help it and it doesn't hurt anyone else -hurt feelings don't count.  If I make batman cry because I'm not following the holy law then that's batman's problem.

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