Upgrade stock brakes

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Permalink Reply by Keith Hughes on January 28, 2012 at 5:02am

Does anybody know of a good upgrade for these brakes?  The bike rides beautiful, but would like some good stopping power.  This Raleigh Superbe is such a blast to ride in every other way.

Permalink Reply by David P. on January 28, 2012 at 5:19am

A relatively easy and cheap place to start is with some Mathauser or other salmon-colored pads, but even with better calipers and pads, your braking ability is ultimately going to be somewhat limited by the steel rims. 

Permalink Reply by Keith Hughes on January 28, 2012 at 6:55am
That was my first thought. Of course I would never get rid of the OEM brakes. I just don't trust stopping in its current state. 

Michael B said:

Try & find a set of Weinmann 810. Raleigh upgraded to them on the later Sports models & the are a vast improvement over the John Bull brakes you have now. They're available on Ebay. They are the same brakes that are found on Schwinn Stingrays & Racers but those are branded "Schwinn Approved" which I don't think belong on a vintage Superbe. Good Luck.

Permalink Reply by Jeff K on January 28, 2012 at 5:22am

Check out Tektro long reach brakes. Any local shop can get them, and here's the lineup on one page:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brake-calipers.html

Also are those shiny steel rims? Because in the rain, those are slippery when wet regardless of the calipers.

Awesome Raleigh, BTW.

Permalink Reply by Keith Hughes on January 28, 2012 at 6:58am
Thank you. I will keep the rims on though. I like it stock, but need to make it a little more safe to ride. I wouldn't want to do without the Dynahub either. 

Jeff K said:

Check out Tektro long reach brakes. Any local shop can get them, and here's the lineup on one page:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brake-calipers.html

Also are those shiny steel rims? Because in the rain, those are slippery when wet regardless of the calipers.

Awesome Raleigh, BTW.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 28, 2012 at 5:32am

Here are all of your options:

The easiest thing to do is to buy a pair of Kool-Stop salmon brake pads and making sure that the the cailper pivot is clean, rust-free, greased, and properly centered.  Also, be sure the cable is clean, kink-free and well-oiled (unless it is a newer lined cable housing, of course.)  And be sure that the brake levers are clean, well-oiled and not binding.  Every little bit of friction and/or binding in the levers, cable, and caliper is going to reduce the amount of lever pressure that makes it to the rim -reducing braking efficiency.  

Be sure the rim is true and the pads are sitting closely to the rim and not too far back -wasting brake travel.

Unless those are stainless rims you'd be much better off with an alloy rim upgrade.  A Sun CR-18 is about the only choice in 26x1-3/8' (ISO-590) alloy rims.    An alloy rim will grip much better on the pads -especially in the wet where regular chromed-steel rims really suck.

If your spokes are OK and in good shape you can sometimes get away with re-using them as the ERD of the CR-18 is the same (or close enough) to the original Raleigh Westrick rims.  If you are somewhat handy you can even do this yourself.  Swapping over the spokes one at a time after taping the rims together isn't too hard.  The hard part is tensioning up the wheel and keeping it true with the correct tension when you are done and even from spoke to spoke.  Any LBS should be able to do this for you.  The CR-18 runs about $30 on the nets.  I'm not sure how much it would be for one plus labor at an LBS -you could ask around.   If you need spokes this is probably going to cost you upwards of $100 (or a little more) to rebuild your wheel on an alloy rim at the LBS. 

Another option is to upgrade the brakes themselves to a more modern center-pull.  This helps a little and gives the brakes a lot more feel.  I wouldn't do this until I got all the performance possible from what you have by completely disassembling them, cleaning all rust and polishing the pivots before greasing and reassembling them.

Another option is to upgrade to a brake-hub such as the Sturmey-Archer X-FDD which will give amazing brakes in all weather but then you lose that classic and cool original vintage dyno hub.  Many of those older dyno hubs are pretty aenemic as the not-so-permanent magnets have demagentized -especially if the hub was ever disassembled without following the correct factory procedure to keep the permanent magnets from demagentizing.    

The problem with ugrading to the  X-FDD or just about any other modern hub is that the older Raleigh forks will need to be modified to fit both the larger hub width and axle diameter. Spreading forks and filing out drop-outs is a job best left to someone who knows what they are doing.   New forks are an option and might even be a good idea if your old 26tpi headset is going bad which will allow you to use an available new 24tpi headset with the fork -but this gets to be spending a lot of money. An X-FDD hub costs about $75-80.  You wouldn't need to replace your steel rim as long as it is a 36-spoke rim as a steel rim is OK (if a bit heavy) for braking when you aren't using rim brakes any more.

Of all these options I'd start with cleaning/oiling/adjusting the brake from lever to caliper, installing Kool Stop salmon pads, and making sure the rim is as true as it can get.

The next step would be to upgrade the caliper to a center-pull.

After that I'd go with the CR-18 rim upgrade as even all the stuff up to that point will only help so much in the wet -chromed steel rims just stink in the wet. 

BTW, that is a nice bike you have there. 

Permalink Reply by Keith Hughes on January 28, 2012 at 7:04am
That was thorough!  I will really give some thought which direction I want to go. Thanks so much. 

James BlackHeron said:

Here are all of your options:

The easiest thing to do is to buy a pair of Kool-Stop salmon brake pads and making sure that the the cailper pivot is clean, rust-free, greased, and properly centered.  Also, be sure the cable is clean, kink-free and well-oiled (unless it is a newer lined cable housing, of course.)  And be sure that the brake levers are clean, well-oiled and not binding.  Every little bit of friction and/or binding in the levers, cable, and caliper is going to reduce the amount of lever pressure that makes it to the rim -reducing braking efficiency.  

Be sure the rim is true and the pads are sitting closely to the rim and not too far back -wasting brake travel.

Unless those are stainless rims you'd be much better off with an alloy rim upgrade.  A Sun CR-18 is about the only choice in 26x1-3/8' (ISO-590) alloy rims.    An alloy rim will grip much better on the pads -especially in the wet where regular chromed-steel rims really suck.

If your spokes are OK and in good shape you can sometimes get away with re-using them as the ERD of the CR-18 is the same (or close enough) to the original Raleigh Westrick rims.  If you are somewhat handy you can even do this yourself.  Swapping over the spokes one at a time after taping the rims together isn't too hard.  The hard part is tensioning up the wheel and keeping it true with the correct tension when you are done and even from spoke to spoke.  Any LBS should be able to do this for you.  The CR-18 runs about $30 on the nets.  I'm not sure how much it would be for one plus labor at an LBS -you could ask around.   If you need spokes this is probably going to cost you upwards of $100 (or a little more) to rebuild your wheel on an alloy rim at the LBS. 

Another option is to upgrade the brakes themselves to a more modern center-pull.  This helps a little and gives the brakes a lot more feel.  I wouldn't do this until I got all the performance possible from what you have by completely disassembling them, cleaning all rust and polishing the pivots before greasing and reassembling them.

Another option is to upgrade to a brake-hub such as the Sturmey-Archer X-FDD which will give amazing brakes in all weather but then you lose that classic and cool original vintage dyno hub.  Many of those older dyno hubs are pretty aenemic as the not-so-permanent magnets have demagentized -especially if the hub was ever disassembled without following the correct factory procedure to keep the permanent magnets from demagentizing.    

The problem with ugrading to the  X-FDD or just about any other modern hub is that the older Raleigh forks will need to be modified to fit both the larger hub width and axle diameter. Spreading forks and filing out drop-outs is a job best left to someone who knows what they are doing.   New forks are an option and might even be a good idea if your old 26tpi headset is going bad which will allow you to use an available new 24tpi headset with the fork -but this gets to be spending a lot of money. An X-FDD hub costs about $75-80.  You wouldn't need to replace your steel rim as long as it is a 36-spoke rim as a steel rim is OK (if a bit heavy) for braking when you aren't using rim brakes any more.

Of all these options I'd start with cleaning/oiling/adjusting the brake from lever to caliper, installing Kool Stop salmon pads, and making sure the rim is as true as it can get.

The next step would be to upgrade the caliper to a center-pull.

After that I'd go with the CR-18 rim upgrade as even all the stuff up to that point will only help so much in the wet -chromed steel rims just stink in the wet. 

BTW, that is a nice bike you have there. 

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 28, 2012 at 5:43am

Aluminum rims are the biggest improvement you can make when it comes to braking.

Also, just based on looking at the picture so I could be wrong, your brakes look to be way to loose and could stand to be properly adjusted.  You also look to be running a set of ancient, and badly worn, pads so there is a lot of room to improve there.

Permalink Reply by Keith Hughes on January 28, 2012 at 7:06am
Thanks, I will probably take this route. I have adjusted them since the picture was taken. The rims are true as well. New brake pads and grease the cables next. 

notoriousDUG said:

Aluminum rims are the biggest improvement you can make when it comes to braking.

Also, just based on looking at the picture so I could be wrong, your brakes look to be way to loose and could stand to be properly adjusted.  You also look to be running a set of ancient, and badly worn, pads so there is a lot of room to improve there.

Permalink Reply by Gerry G on January 28, 2012 at 5:47am

Kieth nice looking bike!

James really ran it down for all of us.  Thanks

Permalink Reply by Keith Hughes on January 28, 2012 at 7:08am
Thanks. I love the hell out of this thing. I have the matching ladies bike too. 

Steel Driver said:

Kieth nice looking bike!

James really ran it down for all of us.  Thanks

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 28, 2012 at 6:08am

Yes, that bike is really Superbe... (dah-dum-dum!)

I'd really hate to mess with its stock/vintage (and seemingly mint condition) by doing any irreversible mods on it.  

If Kool-stop salmon pads and adjusting what is on there now doesn't get the results Kieth is looking for, I'd suggest building an alloy wheelset on a set of donor hubs and saving he stock wheelset for vintage value.  Working Bikes has a decent selection of used hubs this time of years -if I haven't snatched them all up already (guilty as charged -but it has been a few weeks since I was down there.)  Going with the Raleigh front hub will mean it fits the Raleigh forks without any modifications.

If you can't find an AW hub at WB or other source I might be persuaded into giving up one of the half-dozen or so I have on my workbench in various degrees of being refurbished.  I could finish one up in a couple of hours if need be.   

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