Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Duppie on January 9, 2012 at 3:03am

Did you attend the open house and follow up meetings for Streets for Cycling 2020?
That is a much more effective forum than yet another meandering thread on chainlink.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on January 9, 2012 at 3:11am

But without meandering threads, activity would drop by more than 50%.

Duppie said:

Did you attend the open house and follow up meetings for Streets for Cycling 2020?
That is a much more effective forum than yet another meandering thread on chainlink.

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Permalink Reply by Duppie on January 9, 2012 at 3:29am

You're right. We need more koffee-klatsch threads.

Did you see Mission Impossible 4? What a great movie. Better than Casino Royale i'd say!

Kevin C said:

But without meandering threads, activity would drop by more than 50%.

Duppie said:

Did you attend the open house and follow up meetings for Streets for Cycling 2020?
That is a much more effective forum than yet another meandering thread on chainlink.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 9, 2012 at 5:01am

I ride that intersection a lot; it is one of my primary routes tot he NE from my home.  While I agree it is a poorly designed intersection with poor visibility how is it, provided you are obeying traffic signals, really that dangerous of an intersection?  Logan is a little tight on either side of the signal but I have never really felt that squeezed there but if you do simply take the lane.  Headed west I often ride the sidewalk until the boulevard starts less because I feel I am in danger and more as a courtesy to motorists who may be stuck behind me otherwise.

The other question is this: What would you do to improve the intersection?  What makes the intersection bad is the poor visibility due to the overpass; it's not like you can move that so how do you propose to make the intersection safer?  It's not a particularly heavily traveled bike route but it is a very heavily traveled car route and any effort to add a dedicated or protected bike lane is, in my opinion, only going to cause massive congestion as well as create a more dangerous situation for cyclists.  Partially because there is no good lane layout there that will not put cyclists in harms way but also because if you make that an even more congested intersection you are going to create frustrated drivers and frustrated drivers are the ones I consider the most dangerous.

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Permalink Reply by Mark on January 9, 2012 at 9:10am

The boulevard circuit is the perfect place to install protected bike lanes.  Independence Blvd and Douglas Blvd were recently announced.  Why not the entire circuit, including Logan Blvd?  If there are special Sunday morning parking provisions near churches, just exclude those spaces and don't put the barriers up.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 9, 2012 at 9:32am

Logan is not a blvd. at the intersection in question and a protected bike lane would require, probably, closing a lane to cars because the freeway overpass limits the width the road can be.

Mark said:

The boulevard circuit is the perfect place to install protected bike lanes.  Independence Blvd and Douglas Blvd were recently announced.  Why not the entire circuit, including Logan Blvd?  If there are special Sunday morning parking provisions near churches, just exclude those spaces and don't put the barriers up.

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Permalink Reply by Mark on January 9, 2012 at 10:19am

Technically, all of Logan is designated a boulevard, even at Western.

The boulevard system was originally designed for recreational purposes and to create linkages between several large parks.  It was cyclists that lobbied over a hundred years ago to make the boulevards some of the first paved roads in Chicago.

Since then, the boulevard system has become a speedway for cars with several lanes (4 lanes in each direction in some sections along Garfield Blvd), with no trucks or shopping districts to slow them down.  In my opinion, it is the extra capacity of lanes that leads to the speeding traffic.  A protected bike lane could easily be installed by eliminating one driving lane around the entire boulevard system.  With less over-capacity, traffic would be calmer.

Combined with the Lakefront Trail, this would create a green circuit for cyclists of all ages and abilities to enjoy.  Parks would be more accessible by bike.  Bike commuters might only use one or two legs of the boulevard circuit, but boulevard routes are strategically located to link up with other bike lanes and neighborhood destinations.  Not many people ride the boulevard system now because it isn't safe.  That doesn't mean nobody wants to ride the boulevards.  Maybe this will catch on once the Douglas and Independence sections of the protected bike lanes are installed.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 9, 2012 at 12:18pm

I don't consider the section of Logan near Western to be a boulevard because it lacks the outer lanes which make the rest of it so nice for cycling.

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Permalink Reply by thepuppies on January 9, 2012 at 3:13pm

Agreed, there are times to take a lane and times to defer to the car. At this particular bend I tend not to feel confident taking the lane (going eastbound i have no problem taking the lane). I will also agree that a protected lane is wishful thinking but I was hoping to at least have a few other options presented and what it might take to implement them. Would more signage warning motorists help? Would creating a new bike lane between the sidewalk and skate park that could feed into the outer boulevard be a possibility? Hell, i would gladly roll right over a ramp in the skate park every time i passed that stretch if it would keep me out of the street. 

Dupie, was not aware of the streets for cycling 2020 meetings but will look out for them in the future. 

h' --- I will check the Stevenn Vance blog, thank you.  

h' said:

The problem with taking the lane is that every now and then it will get you killed.

In terms of the OP's specific described location, I think there does need to be a barrier-separated lane under the expressway. Not much you could do about the actual crossing of Western though.

I did some googling last night and there is a bunch of info to be found about plans to complete a lane between Western and Milwaukee on Logan, but most if it is buried in other posts on Stevenn Vance's blogs so I thought I'd just defer to him.
notoriousDUG said:

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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on January 9, 2012 at 5:02pm

There are 3 regional Streets for Cycling meetings coming up in the next few weeks, each on a Wednesday night from 6-8 p.m.

1/18 @ Garfield Park Conservatory

1/25 @ Woodson Library (95th & Halsted)

2/1 @ Sulzer Library (Lincoln & Sunnyside)

thepuppies said:

Agreed, there are times to take a lane and times to defer to the car. At this particular bend I tend not to feel confident taking the lane (going eastbound i have no problem taking the lane). I will also agree that a protected lane is wishful thinking but I was hoping to at least have a few other options presented and what it might take to implement them. Would more signage warning motorists help? Would creating a new bike lane between the sidewalk and skate park that could feed into the outer boulevard be a possibility? Hell, i would gladly roll right over a ramp in the skate park every time i passed that stretch if it would keep me out of the street. 

Dupie, was not aware of the streets for cycling 2020 meetings but will look out for them in the future. 

h' --- I will check the Stevenn Vance blog, thank you.  

h' said:

The problem with taking the lane is that every now and then it will get you killed.

In terms of the OP's specific described location, I think there does need to be a barrier-separated lane under the expressway. Not much you could do about the actual crossing of Western though.

I did some googling last night and there is a bunch of info to be found about plans to complete a lane between Western and Milwaukee on Logan, but most if it is buried in other posts on Stevenn Vance's blogs so I thought I'd just defer to him.
notoriousDUG said:

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Mulcky on January 9, 2012 at 5:45pm

I'll take-the-lane when heading west, with one eye looking behind me and both ears open.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 9, 2012 at 6:15pm

I ride through this dangerous pinch-point under the kennedy and then the metra tracks nearly ever day.

Like thepuppies said it isn't too bad going Eastbound but I refuse to ride on the road going Westbound.  With the curve, the narrow lanes and the metal guardrail it isn't safe.  It's beyond unsafe and is a veritable death-trap.  

I don't feel safe in that righthand lane going Westbound in my CAR and stay out of it.  It's not much safer in the left-hand lane as often a car in the right-hand lane looses their sense of where the lane is and pushes into the left.  I've been pushed over the center-lane into the oncoming lane on more than one occasion and luckily there wasn't anyone using it so there wan't a collision.  I've also been in the right-hand lane when a car lost their bearings and came over and I don't know why there wasn't metal to metal contact as there couldn't have been more than a mm or two between both our two cars and the guardrail.

Hell no am I going to ride along that guardrail on my bike.  Car drivers are just not skilled enough and my legs and my life mean too damn much to me to risk them to some stupid texing idiot

I take the sidewalk going Westbound from the Western intersection all the way until Logan becomes a proper bouulevard again.  It's just no worth it.  The sdewalk is wide and open and if there are any peds they can literally be gven a 6-foot berth when they are passed slowly.  The only bad spot is where the painted "LOOK" sign is where the sidewalk is only 3-feet wide going by the column that holds up the metra bridge.  I go at litererallly 1MPH and am ready to stop and get off if there are any peds.

I think that the city should just make this a bike path off the road or cut down Logan to 2 lanes under the bridges before it goes to 4 lanes.  It is 1 lane further East so it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference if it was 1 lane under the bridges too. 

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