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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on September 13, 2012 at 4:08am

Then the question is what exactly ARE ciclovias?

Are they an entertainment event?

Are they a transit opportunity?

Are they advocacy/educational events?

Or are they simply isolated  protests against the car-centric use of streets & roads -taking them back from the cars, if just for a few hours or a day?

Matt Tennessen said:

exactly. economic stratification and segregation is so strong in this city that we focus infrastructure and now recreation dollars in areas that favor middle and upper class citizens. that you actually express this simply strengthens my belief that the city and the advocacy groups that work with it only reflect narrow interests. cars aren't the problem, access is. it is not the city's responsibility to entertain you. it does, however, have a responsibility to make transit throughout it reasonable. and in that aspect it fails miserably.

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Permalink Reply by John Greenfield on September 13, 2012 at 4:26am

Matt, you seem a little unclear on the ciclovia concept. It's not about entertaining affluent people, but rather what former Bogota, Colombia, recreation director Gil Penalosa called "an exercise in integration." In Bogota (where they have a 70-mile ciclovia network every Sunday, drawing up to 2 million people, 1/3 of the city's population), the event encourages people of all income levels, who might otherwise never visit each other's neighborhoods, to interact. They also put on the program relatively cheaply, using volunteers instead of police to control traffic. Check out this video of Bogota's ciclovia: http://www.streetfilms.org/ciclovia/

Ciclovias in dozens of other cities around the world are having similar effects. A successful citywide ciclovia program in Chicago could likewise help to connect people from different kinds of neighborhoods, making a dent in the segregation problem, but this probably isn't going to happen unless the city government puts some more skin in the game.

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Permalink Reply by John Wirtz on September 13, 2012 at 4:35am

I think they probably just need to find a way to do it for less money.  I can see how it would take a lot of resources to plan the events, close the streets with barricades, and manage the traffic at major cross-streets.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on September 13, 2012 at 4:42am

I'd love to see a miles-long ciclovia in Chicago (and by miles, I don't mean just TWO) 

Imagine Milwaukee or Clark (or any other long angle street coming in from the outer limits of the street to downtown -it doesn't need to be on the near North side) being closed for 6+ miles at a stretch for folks to ride their bikes through?

But the photo above in the initial post doesn't look like there is much room for riders moving past all the kids playing in the middle of the street with hula hoops and those big blue things (whatever those are) just beyond that.

We here in Chicago already have a long spread-out mass of wandering/shambling peds everywhere for miles on end -it's called the lakefront trail/park.    We know how useful THAT is for getting from point A to point B when it is busy/crowded.  If a ciclovia is anything like that, or the photo on the initial post then this doesn't seem like much of a transportation event for linking spread-out communities.   To me, it sounds (and looks) more like a simple pretext for a mass protest aimed at yanking back the street from the cars -and not so much to give bikes a rare chance to get around on them without cars present, if only for a day every once in a while. 

For me, I think it is important for us as bicyclists to have a specific goal about what we want to accomplish with a ciclovia -and what exactly what we want them to look like and work like before we jump ahead and demand them for Chicago. 

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Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on September 13, 2012 at 4:48am

I rode to Open Streets on State.  It was nice that there were all of the activities, but it was not geared to cycling at all.  People wandering everywhere and not looking, just like the LFP.

It seems that the Open Streets concept is geared to getting people outside and active.  Cycling is mentioned, but it is not at all what James is suggesting or what it sounds like "ciclovia" is meant to be.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Tennessen on September 13, 2012 at 5:08am

john, chicago isn't bogota. not in size, population density or with the same cultural hurdles. if you want to close sections of streets permanently to personal cars then I'm all for it. pedestrian malls are great public squares. but how is this any different than a street festival our block party but with an exotic name? and I'll still stand my ground that despite it's good intentions, it will not be the vehicle for city-wide harmony. people aren't going to travel out of their neighborhood and navigate cta or bicycle lane deficiencies (and certainly not take a car, as there is even less parking) to do yoga in the streets. maybe to take their kids hula-hooping, but those people will do that regardless.


John Greenfield said:

Matt, you seem a little unclear on the ciclovia concept. It's not about entertaining affluent people, but rather what former Bogota, Colombia, recreation director Gil Penalosa called "an exercise in integration." In Bogota (where they have a 70-mile ciclovia network every Sunday, drawing up to 2 million people, 1/3 of the city's population), the event encourages people of all income levels, who might otherwise never visit each other's neighborhoods, to interact. They also put on the program relatively cheaply, using volunteers instead of police to control traffic. Check out this video of Bogota's ciclovia: http://www.streetfilms.org/ciclovia/

Ciclovias in dozens of other cities around the world are having similar effects. A successful citywide ciclovia program in Chicago could likewise help to connect people from different kinds of neighborhoods, making a dent in the segregation problem, but this probably isn't going to happen unless the city government puts some more skin in the game.

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Permalink Reply by John Greenfield on September 13, 2012 at 5:28am

Matt, the ciclovia works in NYC, which is bigger and denser than Bogota, and it works in all kinds of different cities. Again, what Open Streets currently is (which is very cool in its own right) is not a true ciclovia, connecting multiple neighborhoods with bikeable (not overly cluttered), car-free streets. If Chicago had a Bogota-style ciclovia you might be able to bike from Englewood to Lincoln Park and vise-verse on a car-free Halsted, only a hour of leisurely pedaling but a major eye-opener for people from both communities.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on September 13, 2012 at 5:41am

I think that the occasional ciclovia concept is pretty neat- but as a long-term solution to our issues it may be counter-productive as far as resource-allocation is concerned. 

For something that may only be done sporadically it may be educational or eye-opening for some -but wouldn't some permanent infrastructure be much more beneficial?  We could use that money to create and take down occasional ciclovias to build real infrastructure like the channel trail, or really shut down some streets permanently for bicycles and other human-powered/foot traffic. 

Being able to ride across town once a month, or even once a week on a street that was temporarily shut down might be eye-opening for some folks -especially those who don't already ride much or are comfortable taking such trips on existing infrastructure.   That is a good thing.  But wouldn't permanent bicycle infrastructure be even MORE eye-opening?  

Ciclovias can't be cheap to set up.  Barriers have to be put up and taken down so that autos can't intrude onto them.  Personnel and barriers need to be stationed at cross-streets and supervise these crossings to keep them safe.  This stuff all costs a lot of money/resources.   And resources and money are not unlimited (contrary to popular opinion.) 

I feel that Ciclovias are temporary solutions to long-term issues.   Perhaps they have a place -but they are not a panacea nor a permanent solution to the issues, we as riders, face.   Maybe their best use is as a recruiting tool to bring more bicycle riders out onto the streets and into the public square demanding more bicycle infrastructure that doesn't close down and go away at the end of the day. 

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Permalink Reply by Tricolor on September 13, 2012 at 5:43am

For something so long how are intersections handled?  Closing down a block or two and putting a big fence around it (with the usual $5 suggested donation) is pretty easy, but wouldn't something bigger, particularly downtown, eventually have to be broken up?

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