Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tom A.K. on August 1, 2016 at 6:08pm

Michael, I've probably been a cyclist about ten years before you learned how to ride with training wheels. I'm an old dude like you plus around ten years more and have been reading the Chainlink since the beginning.

Unless you want to come over and talk about things over some beers, I think I'll go rest my tired scratchy butt. See ya in the funnies . . .

Permalink Reply by Yasmeen on August 1, 2016 at 8:03pm

Michael, it'd be fantastic if you could share your photo with Olympic medalist Nelson "Nelly" Vails as well as some of your experiences. 

I am excited to say we are working with a few riders that are doing RABGRAI ride reports to share their experiences. Hoping to have at least one published in a little over a week's time.

I'll also be uploading a few of my photos shortly. With the huge number of riders at RAGBRAI, there are a lot of great stories to tell. It is unfortunate the only posts that have made it to the site so far have been about the tragic stories. I think part of that is due to the lack of access to internet for riders in Iowa.  

Permalink Reply by Tom A.K. on August 2, 2016 at 3:13am

So really Michael B., what do you propose the cycling community should do, and how should we react when we are faced with the inevitable unfortunate and tragic incidents that occur? You seem to be inferring that they should be ignored and glossed over and forgotten about. Is that what you mean?

Permalink Reply by Tom A.K. on August 2, 2016 at 4:52am

So you're saying, that my posting about the tragic event at Ragbrai, or any other Chainlink member that post about similar events, does this community a great disservice.

The most important thing for me and most others in this community is how to improve our situation safely as 'transportation' on our roads. How to safely travel our roads. What situations to watch out for. What proper types of equipment should we have (mirror, reflectives, brakes, etc.)

I'm distressed and upset also when any perceived positive, beautiful and celebratory event/ride goes in a negative direction. Maybe you're harping at the wrong guy. Try complaining to the big boss upstairs.

Life happens, so does tragedy . . . sometimes . . .

Permalink Reply by Tom A.K. on August 2, 2016 at 5:29am

I'm speaking of the majority of my posts here, on the Chainlink.

Many members here 'share' stories/news/internet info here all the time. Do you want to repress that also? It's part of the spark of discussion for this cycling community website. It is happening right now on the top of the discussion board. I don't think without some legitimate source of information there could be a continuum of logical discussion.

I don't think that would be positive for this site.

Permalink Reply by Tom A.K. on August 2, 2016 at 5:54am

Every thing I input here, I put in considerable thought of the appropriateness of the content.

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on August 2, 2016 at 5:15am

No personal attacks, please! That is not appropriate on this forum.  Please stop NOW.

Permalink Reply by Yasmeen on August 2, 2016 at 6:07am

This is a very heartfelt topic. One that so many of us feel and are very passionate about. I feel a certain amount of responsibility for the direction this thread took today. Michael had expressed this concern to me on RAGBRAI - we had a brief but incomplete conversation about it. The conversation was incomplete because it didn't reach a conclusion about whether we should be posting crashes and cycling-related deaths or not. Michael expressed his concern that our forum has taken a recent direction where these deaths have become too much of the focus. To a certain extent, I agree with him. I worry about new cyclists thinking this is all there is when even if these stories are heartbreaking to all of us, statistically, it's not a large number of cyclists. To give you a little background, Skip asked me about his thread, "Another cyclist fatality" and I fully supported his thread because we talked about raising awareness. I needed to think about how we could give this additional awareness but never really landed on a campaign direction, partially because I struggled about how to be impactful and create effective changes for the safety of cyclists. I agree with Michael, there is a risk of "rubber-necking" if we post but miss conveying a purpose or solution. Is there something we can do to help be agents of change for safer cycling? 

So I encouraged Michael to express these concerns, hoping for a good, solid discussion like many of the other ones we have been having about cyclist safety, relationships with drivers, and pretty much every other recent thread. We've had some pretty thoughtful discussions. So I'm going to gently remind us all that using profanity, assuming intentions, and making harsh judgements isn't helpful and also violates our participation rules.

Can we change this thread so that we have a thoughtful, meaningful discussion about effectiveness of posting about cycling-related deaths? I will continue to post the big stories e.g. Michigan as well as the local stories e.g. Divvy. I do believe there is a value to doing so. I also recommend this - if you prefer to see positive stories and discussions, BE THE CHANGE. Sure this is corny but it's the best way I know of changing the mood - find the positive stories, ask positive questions. Didn't see enough good stuff about an awesome ride e.g. RAGBRAI? Well, post it yourself or if you couldn't attend this ride, ask others if they went as well as asking to share photos, stories, etc. And of course, do what Gene does - POST THOSE BEAUTIFUL RIDING PHOTOS! :-) We will also be posting more ride/race reports, cycling-related articles, product reviews, etc.

Permalink Reply by Tom A.K. on August 2, 2016 at 6:30am

+ 1 Agreed, for positive, meaningful and thoughtful Chainlink community discussion.

I propose for consideration that all future cycling related fatality information that is to be posted here, be reviewed by the administration of our site, Yasmeen, and she shall review, consider and recommend how to properly go forward with the information.

Permalink Reply by Yasmeen on August 2, 2016 at 6:34am

I don't really want to be a gatekeeper. As I try to learn more about stepping back and letting conversations take place, there is a value to the debates and discussions. As I mentioned in my post, I don't have some great, definitive answer to this because I can easily see both sides of the issue. I do ask, as posting, to think about what value your post brings. There is a value to editorializing the post - tell us why you chose to share the article. What does it mean to you? What do you think? Do you agree or disagree? Just throwing a news story up there, to Michael's point, doesn't necessarily invite the conversation you might be hoping for. I've learned in posting that articles rarely stand on their own to spark meaningful discussions.

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