Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on January 20, 2014 at 8:35am

I don't believe Milwaukee is slated to get a curb-separated bike lane, but I could be mistaken.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Using the plow to remove the snow and bollards, perhaps the city crew is making way for the new  protected bike lane? 

Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:

Yes, but good luck finding out and proving who did it. Are there any cameras in the area? Whoever did it should be forced to pour concrete for a curb-separated bike lane to take the place of the currently bollard-protected one. :-)

h' 1.0 said:

Aside from all that, it sounds like we have an act of vandalism on our hands by a disgruntled city worker.

Should't there be consequences?
 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on January 20, 2014 at 8:48am

Apples. Oranges. Pomegranates.

It remains to be seen whether the Chicago School of Protected Bike Lane design yields any real safety benefits. They seem to attract riders who may otherwise be afraid to ride on City streets, but it is unlikely we'll ever get good numbers on the nature and extent of that increase. (At present our traffic counts don't account for whether increased ridership on Kinzie is due to more riders in real terms, or simply fewer riders on Hubbard). I'm not sure how you will ever be able to compare the safety effect of buffered vs. protected bike lanes. As for the smaller plow trucks, it is my understanding that the City owns one and rents one or two more. Clearly they have yet to master the logistics of getting those mini-plows where they need to be when they're needed. The climate, and snowfall totals of Amsterdam and Copenhagen are far less challenging than those of Chicago, and there is a much smaller drop-off in ridership there vs. Chicago. They design their lanes to accommodate snow removal and the volume of riders they maintain throughout the winter months justifies the frequent passes by snow removal equipment. We don't have accurate numbers in Chicago, but my guesstimate is that we struggle to maintain a quarter of the riders through the winter that you'll see on your average June day. In a city with budget constraints the magnitude of Chicago's, it is going to be a tough sell to pay to truck mini plows around the city throughout the day and night to accommodate the handful of riders who continue to ride through the winter.

Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:

I disagree. The benefits of increased safety greatly outweigh the costs of the special plows. Protected bike lanes are far safer and are going to attract far more riders than a buffered lane. The issue of snow can easily be solved with smaller plow trucks – this is how cities like Amsterdam and Copenhagen keep their bike lanes clear. The solution should not be to install bike lanes that have been proven to be less safe.

Liz said:

This is where I think that buffered lanes are a little better, there isn't a requirement for special equipment to come down the street to plow.  

WebRep

currentVote

noRating

noWeight

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on January 20, 2014 at 9:04am

It can become a self-fufilling prophecy, though. The city doesn't prioritize plowing the bike lanes in the winter because there is less ridership, but then ridership drops off even more because the city doesn't prioritize plowing the bike lanes in the winter. I'm willing to bet that if the city started plowing the protected bike lanes first and designing bike lanes to accommodate snow removal while not compromising safety, then we'd see increased winter ridership.

Regarding your claims about protected vs. buffered, I have seen data that has shown a decrease in crash rates when protected bike lanes are installed. It's from NYC, I believe, but can easily be applied to Chicago.

Now, where did I put my Steven Vance bat signal?

Kevin C said:

Apples. Oranges. Pomegranates.

It remains to be seen whether the Chicago School of Protected Bike Lane design yields any real safety benefits. They seem to attract riders who may otherwise be afraid to ride on City streets, but it is unlikely we'll ever get good numbers on the nature and extent of that increase. (At present our traffic counts don't account for whether increased ridership on Kinzie is due to more riders in real terms, or simply fewer riders on Hubbard). I'm not sure how you will ever be able to compare the safety effect of buffered vs. protected bike lanes. As for the smaller plow trucks, it is my understanding that the City owns one and rents one or two more. Clearly they have yet to master the logistics of getting those mini-plows where they need to be when they're needed. The climate, and snowfall totals of Amsterdam and Copenhagen are far less challenging than those of Chicago, and there is a much smaller drop-off in ridership there vs. Chicago. They design their lanes to accommodate snow removal and the volume of riders they maintain throughout the winter months justifies the frequent passes by snow removal equipment. We don't have accurate numbers in Chicago, but my guesstimate is that we struggle to maintain a quarter of the riders through the winter that you'll see on your average June day. In a city with budget constraints the magnitude of Chicago's, it is going to be a tough sell to pay to truck mini plows around the city throughout the day and night to accommodate the handful of riders who continue to ride through the winter.

Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:

I disagree. The benefits of increased safety greatly outweigh the costs of the special plows. Protected bike lanes are far safer and are going to attract far more riders than a buffered lane. The issue of snow can easily be solved with smaller plow trucks – this is how cities like Amsterdam and Copenhagen keep their bike lanes clear. The solution should not be to install bike lanes that have been proven to be less safe.

Liz said:

This is where I think that buffered lanes are a little better, there isn't a requirement for special equipment to come down the street to plow.  

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on January 20, 2014 at 9:57am

Jack Nicholson at the end of a particularly cold and blustery evening in "The Shining."

h' 1.0 said:

Kevin, wth is that avatar pic?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on January 20, 2014 at 11:04am

C'mon, Kevin.  Admit it is you after the last snow ride.

Kevin C said:

Jack Nicholson at the end of a particularly cold and blustery evening in "The Shining."

h' 1.0 said:

Kevin, wth is that avatar pic?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by David Barish on January 20, 2014 at 11:15am

allworkandnoridingmakeskevinadullboyallworkandnoridingmakeskevinadullboyallworkandnoridingmakeskevinadullboyallworkandnoridingmakeskevinadullboyallworkandnoridingmakeskevinadullboyallworkandnoridingmakeskevinadullboyallworkandnoridingmakeskevinadullboy

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on January 20, 2014 at 11:30am

I'd love to hear what Steven has to say, but just so you know, the source for my statement that "[a]t present our traffic counts don't account for whether increased ridership on Kinzie is due to more riders in real terms, or simply fewer riders on Hubbard" is Steven Vance. [my paraphrasing]

Jennifer on the lake said:

Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:

It can become a self-fufilling prophecy, though. The city doesn't prioritize plowing the bike lanes in the winter because there is less ridership, but then ridership drops off even more because the city doesn't prioritize plowing the bike lanes in the winter. I'm willing to bet that if the city started plowing the protected bike lanes first and designing bike lanes to accommodate snow removal while not compromising safety, then we'd see increased winter ridership.

Regarding your claims about protected vs. buffered, I have seen data that has shown a decrease in crash rates when protected bike lanes are installed. It's from NYC, I believe, but can easily be applied to Chicago.

Now, where did I put my Steven Vance bat signal?

Kevin C said:

Apples. Oranges. Pomegranates.

It remains to be seen whether the Chicago School of Protected Bike Lane design yields any real safety benefits. They seem to attract riders who may otherwise be afraid to ride on City streets, but it is unlikely we'll ever get good numbers on the nature and extent of that increase. (At present our traffic counts don't account for whether increased ridership on Kinzie is due to more riders in real terms, or simply fewer riders on Hubbard). I'm not sure how you will ever be able to compare the safety effect of buffered vs. protected bike lanes. As for the smaller plow trucks, it is my understanding that the City owns one and rents one or two more. Clearly they have yet to master the logistics of getting those mini-plows where they need to be when they're needed. The climate, and snowfall totals of Amsterdam and Copenhagen are far less challenging than those of Chicago, and there is a much smaller drop-off in ridership there vs. Chicago. They design their lanes to accommodate snow removal and the volume of riders they maintain throughout the winter months justifies the frequent passes by snow removal equipment. We don't have accurate numbers in Chicago, but my guesstimate is that we struggle to maintain a quarter of the riders through the winter that you'll see on your average June day. In a city with budget constraints the magnitude of Chicago's, it is going to be a tough sell to pay to truck mini plows around the city throughout the day and night to accommodate the handful of riders who continue to ride through the winter.

Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:

I disagree. The benefits of increased safety greatly outweigh the costs of the special plows. Protected bike lanes are far safer and are going to attract far more riders than a buffered lane. The issue of snow can easily be solved with smaller plow trucks – this is how cities like Amsterdam and Copenhagen keep their bike lanes clear. The solution should not be to install bike lanes that have been proven to be less safe.

Liz said:

This is where I think that buffered lanes are a little better, there isn't a requirement for special equipment to come down the street to plow.  

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on January 20, 2014 at 11:38am

I'm not sure what an appropriate photo of me would be after the last snow ride. It was a marathon! Suffice it to say that planning for "The Hank Ride" is already underway- a June 7th bike ride in honor of our new best friend from Mickey's Tavern.

Lisa Curcio 4.1 mi said:

C'mon, Kevin.  Admit it is you after the last snow ride.

Kevin C said:

Jack Nicholson at the end of a particularly cold and blustery evening in "The Shining."

h' 1.0 said:

Kevin, wth is that avatar pic?

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page