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Hey Ladies! What are your biggest pet peeves as a woman cyclist?

Specifically what behaviors do you feel subjected to, especially those of other cyclists, that annoy/irritate/frighten you that you feel you disproportionately experience as a direct result of your gender identity.

I am exploring this as a possible topic for an upcoming video education piece. So hit me.

Feel free to send me your thoughts in an email (jason@activetrans.org) if you don't feel like sharing with the group.

Thanks all!

Jason Jenkins

Education Specialist

Active Trans

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tom Dworzanski on September 26, 2013 at 12:35pm

I generally agree with everything you've said Peenworm, but in this post I respectfully disagree. The women here are absolutely right that men need to listen more to understand and I've said that already. And as has been proven by the other women in this thread, men patronize and disrespect women based on their gender very commonly. It's wrong and I don't condone it. However, as men often overemphasize women's traditionally feminine traits, women often overemphasize men's traditionally masculine traits. I think your wording may have done just that.

When you talk about "honor" (which is defined as "high respect") in a dismissive way it is very destructive to a man's emotions because to men concepts like honor and respect are the pinnacle of emotional happiness, much as being loved might be to a woman (from what I've heard and read endlessly, though I don't admit to being able to personally know this.)

I don't mean to attack what you said because it certainly doesn't seem like it was your intention for it to be taken negatively (in fact it seems like you were trying to help and I think that's awesome), but I do think it's important to communicate that as men, ideas like honor are of extreme importance (whether we show it or not) and shouldn't be used so casually.

Links from the first page of Google results for "importance of respect men":

http://boards.askmen.com/showthread.php?129226-Men-how-important-is...

http://loveandrespect.com/about-us/

http://thealbanyjournal.com/2010/10/men-want-respect/

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201208/in-relatio...


Peenworm "8 mile" Grubologist said:

Well the thing is, they kinda don't work both ways. If you really want to try and understand that the best you can, as a man, the thing to do when checked on this is not get all defensive over your honor, but stop and listen for a bit because there's a whole shitload of stuff that we never have to think about. 

Davo said:

Yes I would not want to believe that the experience was solely about gender, perhaps the mechanic was just a jerk. But after further elaboration, it is known that she felt the mechanics conduct was based of her gender and I can try to understand that the best I can as a man. 

I'd like to add that microagressions work both ways. There is no way that I can reiterate myself that wont get thrown back in my face as implying that i am a complete sexist. It sucks that people are subject to subconscious and conscious beratement (for lack of a better word).

Permalink Reply by Gort 12-mile Pinklegneep on September 26, 2013 at 2:51pm

I'm sorry man but the first link you posted was from an absolute clown shoe of a performative masculinity PUA fedora goof site. Askmen dot com is some of the grossest inane crap around town and should only ever be mocked mercilessly forever. Mind, that link was just from a forum page on their discussion whatever referring to some vaguely-recalled study that might've been involved in some book somewhere, but dohoho. 

Respect in relationships is just a human thing. Framing it as important to men is plenty of trouble right there. There's also a pretty big historical relationship between emphasis on honor and glorification of violence. It's totally morally sound to dismiss it, particularly when it plays out as it did in here where saying "hey dude - that thing you are doing is not cool" becomes time to turn this whole buggy around because suddenly we have to make it all about some dude's feelings. 

Permalink Reply by Gort 12-mile Pinklegneep on September 26, 2013 at 2:57pm

I realize I'm just enabling this derail into Guy Feelings but it's not even a little bit unusual that a space for women to relate experiences that bother them gets jacked by dismissal and then honorbluster. 

Permalink Reply by Tom Dworzanski on September 26, 2013 at 3:22pm

You didn't understand. I said it was the most important thing. As in it's required for amiability. Thanks for considering what I said.

Peenworm "8 mile" Grubologist said:

Respect in relationships is just a human thing. Framing it as important to men is plenty of trouble right there. There's also a pretty big historical relationship between emphasis on honor and glorification of violence. It's totally morally sound to dismiss it, particularly when it plays out as it did in here where saying "hey dude - that thing you are doing is not cool" becomes time to turn this whole buggy around because suddenly we have to make it all about some dude's feelings. 

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on September 26, 2013 at 4:01pm

Thank you!!!!


echo said:
 I think it's telling that a post asking WOMEN (or, at least, gender minorities) to discuss their GENDERED experiences has been basically hijacked and turned into sub-debates about how men feel.

Permalink Reply by Michelle on September 26, 2013 at 4:10pm

How is honor "required" for amiability. You aren't a gumball machine. We don't have to put "honor" or "respect" in to you in order to get "amiability" out. Men are more than capable of being amiable in most situations, all on their own. If they decide not to be, that is their choice, not the fault of those who you're speaking to. That kind of thinking leads to dangerous things: like the common "nice guy" syndrome where a guy puts in "niceness" and expects "sex" to come out. People aren't like that. It doesn't work

Permalink Reply by Bez on September 26, 2013 at 4:22pm

Can we perhaps move the conversation back to the things that bother women cyclists?

Frankly, I hear enough about how men feel, and how I'm supposed to feel as a man, and friendzoning, and how men strike back by being all misogynistic and shit.

I'm more interested in the things that happen to women as a result of being a female cyclist, because I may inadvertently be doing things that may make others feel uncomfortable and I'd like to at least be aware of being a dickweed (I swear I wasn't just checking you out, I like to check out bikes too...)

Permalink Reply by Tom Dworzanski on September 26, 2013 at 4:24pm

The misunderstanding isn't in what I said. The misunderstanding is in my trying to explain how nuclear attacking an individual man's honor can be. This thread isn't about honor or men. I just felt bad for the guy to whom it was said. It's cool if you disagree or don't get where I'm coming from; this thread needs more women's issues.

echo said:

I re-read your post, and I'm not sure how peenworm misunderstood:

Emphasis added on a direct quote from you below:

When you talk about "honor" (which is defined as "high respect") in a dismissive way it is very destructive to a man's emotions because to men concepts like honor and respect are the pinnacle of emotional happiness...

So, perhaps you mistyped. Or are changing your mind. But it's definitely not a misunderstanding...


Tom Dworzanski said:

You didn't understand. I said it was the most important thing. As in it's required for amiability. Thanks for considering what I said.

Peenworm "8 mile" Grubologist said:

Respect in relationships is just a human thing. Framing it as important to men is plenty of trouble right there. There's also a pretty big historical relationship between emphasis on honor and glorification of violence. It's totally morally sound to dismiss it, particularly when it plays out as it did in here where saying "hey dude - that thing you are doing is not cool" becomes time to turn this whole buggy around because suddenly we have to make it all about some dude's feelings. 

Permalink Reply by Michelle on September 26, 2013 at 4:26pm

Basically like... how would you treat another man? Treat a woman like that.

Bez said:

Can we perhaps move the conversation back to the things that bother women cyclists?

Frankly, I hear enough about how men feel, and how I'm supposed to feel as a man, and friendzoning, and how men strike back by being all misogynistic and shit.

I'm more interested in the things that happen to women as a result of being a female cyclist, because I may inadvertently be doing things that may make others feel uncomfortable and I'd like to at least be aware of being a dickweed (I swear I wasn't just checking you out, I like to check out bikes too...)

Permalink Reply by Bez on September 26, 2013 at 4:42pm

Cool, I'm good then :)

Michelle said:

Basically like... how would you treat another man? Treat a woman like that.

Bez said:

Can we perhaps move the conversation back to the things that bother women cyclists?

Frankly, I hear enough about how men feel, and how I'm supposed to feel as a man, and friendzoning, and how men strike back by being all misogynistic and shit.

I'm more interested in the things that happen to women as a result of being a female cyclist, because I may inadvertently be doing things that may make others feel uncomfortable and I'd like to at least be aware of being a dickweed (I swear I wasn't just checking you out, I like to check out bikes too...)

Permalink Reply by Michelle on September 26, 2013 at 4:47pm

It's not really rocket science. We aren't really asking for that much... just for common decency, and treated like we have brains and feelings... 

Bez said:

Cool, I'm good then :)

Michelle said:

Basically like... how would you treat another man? Treat a woman like that.

Bez said:

Can we perhaps move the conversation back to the things that bother women cyclists?

Frankly, I hear enough about how men feel, and how I'm supposed to feel as a man, and friendzoning, and how men strike back by being all misogynistic and shit.

I'm more interested in the things that happen to women as a result of being a female cyclist, because I may inadvertently be doing things that may make others feel uncomfortable and I'd like to at least be aware of being a dickweed (I swear I wasn't just checking you out, I like to check out bikes too...)

Permalink Reply by Bez on September 26, 2013 at 4:52pm

Just so we're clear, I'm fully aware of all of that and like to think that I treat people pretty much equally regardless.  The whole appropriated the thread into men's feelings thing annoyed me enough to post.

Michelle said:

It's not really rocket science. We aren't really asking for that much... just for common decency, and treated like we have brains and feelings... 

Bez said:

Cool, I'm good then :)

Michelle said:

Basically like... how would you treat another man? Treat a woman like that.

Bez said:

Can we perhaps move the conversation back to the things that bother women cyclists?

Frankly, I hear enough about how men feel, and how I'm supposed to feel as a man, and friendzoning, and how men strike back by being all misogynistic and shit.

I'm more interested in the things that happen to women as a result of being a female cyclist, because I may inadvertently be doing things that may make others feel uncomfortable and I'd like to at least be aware of being a dickweed (I swear I wasn't just checking you out, I like to check out bikes too...)

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