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Critics say CTA favors profits over poor with new system (Trib Article)

The CTA was accused of putting the profits of its corporate partners ahead of the needs of poor people during a hearing Monday night on a new fare-payment system set to debut this summer. Jon Hilkevitch reports about it here.

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Permalink Reply by Crazy David 84 Furlongs on March 20, 2013 at 11:14am

The devil is in the details.  It says "no convenience fees will be added".   It doesn't say that the fare will be the same.  The CTA currently charges two different fees at O'Hare, for example, one for a Chicago Card and the other for a "regular" fare card.  Nothing about convenience fees, but the prices are different.  My guess is that ultimately using the credit card won't result in "convenience fees" but will be at a higher price.  (And if it is not, I guess a clean carrying no balance RFID enable discover card with "cashback" may be the way to go...)

Permalink Reply by MagMileMarauder on March 20, 2013 at 11:18am

improving infrastructure and trains > fare collection technology :)

Permalink Reply by MagMileMarauder on March 20, 2013 at 12:54pm

Pretty clever stuff going on. This sort of sounds like the Wall Street investors-LAZ/Daley privatization deal but instead, for public transportation. The middle man here is collecting 75 cents for each one-time user. I would imagine that adds up over time. After the investment in all the technology, Mastercard will probably get a nice profit, and the city and it's politicians, their respective "contributions" for letting them (MasterCard)tap into the system. Privatization schemes NEVER look out for the poor. They're just for enriching a small minority. Am I missing something?

Edit:

I should also have said that the city is really desperate for cash. In this particular case, I'm not sure if anybody is personally getting rich out of this deal. This is probably done just to keep the political machine running.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on March 20, 2013 at 1:22pm

I wonder if they have any plans of being able to accept NFC smartphone payment or have future expansion capability to do this?

I have a feeling this is going to be HUGE in the next couple of years as more and phones have this technology.  Just in the last 6 months the number of stores that can accept payment with a NFC-enabled smartphone has tripled or even quadrupled.   This is going to be a big thing in the near future and for the CTA not to tap into it now will be a mistake as they will eventually have to do it later when everyone is using NFC smartphone payments for just about everything like people do now with regular swipe credit cards.     

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on March 20, 2013 at 1:24pm

Here's more from today's Tribune - about reduced fare Ventra cards and the breakdown on various fees.

Lowlights:  "In addition to the $5-a-month "dormancy fee'' that the CTA board approved last week — to be charged to Ventra transit-fare accounts that are inactive for 18 months — the prepaid debit side of the card will be charged $2 a month after 18 months if no retail purchases or money transfers into the account are made, officials said."

"If you are a Ventra customer who becomes fed up with all the ancillary charges and want out, or say you simply move to North Dakota and don't need a CTA Ventra card anymore, you will be assessed a $6 "Balance Refund Fee'' to receive a check in the mail for the remaining money on your Ventra account — minus the $6."

"Ventra debit account customers will also be charged a $2.95 "Reload on Internet'' fee each time they add money to the retail side of Ventra cards using a personal credit card. The $2.95 fee is not charged if a credit card is used to purchase transit fares or passes, officials said.

Use your Ventra debit account to withdraw cash at an ATM? A $1.50 service fee will be tacked on, regardless of where you do your banking. The CTA's banking partner in the Ventra system is MetaBank, a specialty financial institution."

Permalink Reply by MagMileMarauder on March 20, 2013 at 1:32pm

The 75 cents fee I mentioned is small fries compared to all those fees.

Permalink Reply by Lizzy M. on March 20, 2013 at 1:41pm

This conversation is very interesting to me--largely because I don't see anyone raising the objection I hear most from my friends who (me included) absolutely refuse to use their credit or debit card as a fare card. They don't want to be fumbling with their wallet/yanking a credit card out of the depths of a purse/bag to board the bus and the alternative of keeping a credit card/debit card in an easily accessible exterior pocket or generally carting it around like a fare card is not in the least appealing.

It's inconvenient and irritating if/when I lose my CTA card. It's nothing compared to the hassles we've had (three times in the last year) when a credit card is lost or stolen. Also, I'm really happy to leave my CTA card for the cat/house sitter when I'm out of town or a houseguest while I'm biking to work, but I'm not doing that with a credit card.

I'm still not entirely sure whether or not there will be a card that is just a fare card, nothing else, which, frankly, is what I want.

Permalink Reply by Crazy David 84 Furlongs on March 20, 2013 at 1:56pm

That's a great point.  And adding to that, the credit/debit cards will be RIFD scanable.  Thus an identify thief with a portable (and disguised) RIFD scanner could see who comes in using a credit card, notice where it is stuck (assuming that you dont' want to pull your wallet out in a crowd), and "bump" into you and scan the card.   I, so far, have managed to avoid having any of my cards being RIFD.   But the risk is real.  Here's an article from C-Net that says the range for a credit card may be a few feet.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3513_7-6658127-1.html

That alone is a good reason NOT to get the Debit card feature of the Ventra Card.  

Lizzy M. said:

This conversation is very interesting to me--largely because I don't see anyone raising the objection I hear most from my friends who (me included) absolutely refuse to use their credit or debit card as a fare card. They don't want to be fumbling with their wallet/yanking a credit card out of the depths of a purse/bag to board the bus and the alternative of keeping a credit card/debit card in an easily accessible exterior pocket or generally carting it around like a fare card is not in the least appealing.

It's inconvenient and irritating if/when I lose my CTA card. It's nothing compared to the hassles we've had (three times in the last year) when a credit card is lost or stolen. Also, I'm really happy to leave my CTA card for the cat/house sitter when I'm out of town or a houseguest while I'm biking to work, but I'm not doing that with a credit card.

I'm still not entirely sure whether or not there will be a card that is just a fare card, nothing else, which, frankly, is what I want.

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on March 20, 2013 at 2:43pm

Reading these stories, that's about how it sounds to me - a deal with the devil to save on fare collection costs.

Cameron 7.5 mi said:

The CTA's banking partner MetaBank sounds like an predatory financial institution and all around terrible company. They have a history of having banking regulators shut down various programs for deceptive trade practices. The CTA seems to have rather stupidly gone out on a limb by becoming the public face of what sounds like a rather shady bank.


Anne Alt said:

Use your Ventra debit account to withdraw cash at an ATM? A $1.50 service fee will be tacked on, regardless of where you do your banking. The CTA's banking partner in the Ventra system is MetaBank, a specialty financial institution."

Permalink Reply by WillG on March 20, 2013 at 2:44pm

Tony, fyi, you can add funds to a Chicago Card Plus with any credit card, I've done it tens of times.
Tony Adams 6.6 mi said:

I seethe with despair at my Chicago Card Plus. I get it loaded with pre-tax funds about once a year ($30 covers me for ALMOST a year usually).

But, unless I'm missing something, I can't add my own funds to the card, so when it runs out I have to re-order the transit funds which invariably takes several weeks to go through. Why can't I add funds to the damn thing myself?

I also hate the fact that the only way to check one's balance is to log into some web site that i use exactly once a year and therefore of course forget/lose the login credentials.

There may have been technological reasons for having two different cards, but those should have just been fixed. Foisting all these separate cards which have essentially the same function on riders was a huge disservice.


h' 1.0 said:

Are you referring to the current CTA system?

I've been happily using a Chicago Card Plus for maybe 6 years, and I don't have to take it out of my wallet or out of my pocket at train turnstyles.

James BlackHeron said:

The toll network is pretty terrible.

So far I've gotten by without hooking my credit card to it yet. I just buy the "gift" cards and add them manually to the transponder via the phone method (they don't let you do that online.)

If the card was anonymous and one could just add money at a pay station like the current swipe card I would call it a big improvement.   

I do not like taking my wallet out at the turnstiles and if I don't keep the card in my wallet I lose it.

As it is I am constantly misplacing the cards because I stuff them back into a random pocket and the next time i go to take the train I have to buy a new one.  Then I end up with multiple cards in my wallet and sometimes forget which card I used on the last trip and end up screwing myself out of transfer discounts because I use a different card at the next stop.


An NFC system would allow you to keep your card in your wallet and your wallet in your pocket as you brush your pocket against the reader. 

Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on March 26, 2013 at 12:56pm

http://chicagoist.com/2013/03/26/cta_drops_2_ventra_card_fees.php

Well, the CTA is listening.  They've just dropped 2 of the more egregious fees, the $10/hour "research" & $2.95 accout-reloading-by-credit-card. The bad news: Ventra can reinstate those 2 fees "at any time." Sheesh.

Permalink Reply by Jeremy on March 26, 2013 at 1:52pm

I think the bad news is a little deeper into the article when it's mentioned that the projected yearly cost of using the ventra card is a whopping $188 a year.  WTF?   This sounds like a TERRIBLE deal!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-ventra-debit-deal-0...

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