The Chainlink

Critics say CTA favors profits over poor with new system (Trib Article)

The CTA was accused of putting the profits of its corporate partners ahead of the needs of poor people during a hearing Monday night on a new fare-payment system set to debut this summer. Jon Hilkevitch reports about it here.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on March 14, 2013 at 2:23pm

I would much rather take the soft rocking of the new Red Line cars over the herky-jerky sudden acceleration & slamming on the brakes wiplash roughness that is the Blue Line.    The new Red Line cars do gently sway like a boat so if one isn't used to riding in a boat I can see how it might be a little different and off-putting.   But it is so smooth and quiet inside.  For me it's an improvement by a couple orders of magnitude.   I suppose everyone has a different perception of this though.

h' 1.0 said:

I was in one of the bad cars on the Blue line last night.

Re: the new cars-- they are much harder to place a bike in so it's not blocking seats or otherwise in the way, and while they may be smooth, the weird suspension makes for kind of a perilous ride; my feeling is that anyone with the slightest difficulty with balance or walking would be extremely likely to fall on the new cars just from the back and forth sway.


Permalink Reply by Tricolor on March 14, 2013 at 3:46pm

It's the traction motors.  Everything since electrification at the turn of the century ran on preset DC loads that could only be controlled by switching between power levels, resulting the notchy acceleration and braking the motors can put out.  It's very damaging to tracks, jarring to riders, and braking generates a ton of waste heat.  The AC motors on the new cars can apply power without having to be staged and can recover energy when braking.

The new seating is mainly with an eye to crush loads at rush hour.  Bikes have never been a consideration on the train, and at busy times when I have a flat and need to ride there's no good place to stand.  But the bench layout is what other big US cities do - particularly New York - so I think the CTA is just trying to copy that.

Permalink Reply by Crazy David 84 Furlongs on March 14, 2013 at 6:11pm

The Chicago card works currently on Pace.    The problem is that it is badly made and I must "break" one or two a year.  (Usually when the warm card is placed near the cold "touch pad" causing it to fracture.    As one poster noted, the primary problem for public transit has always been the high cost of the fare collection system.   Frankly, its a good reason for free public transit.   The actual operating cost of the system would be far less.  That being said, I really do not like the idea of "open" payment systems.  It means that if someone steals my wallet, they can even use my credit card to escape.  And in the longer term, in the hands of a "private" bank, we will see fees added.

That's why using a bicycle is a good thing..

Permalink Reply by Jeremy Mendelson on March 14, 2013 at 8:34pm

They call it "open" payment but really it's just controlled by the same big banks we all know and love.  Just watch in a few years Visa & Mastercard hike the merchant fees to 20% because CTA is stuck with them.

I'm really glad to hear the Chicago Card works on Pace. Then there's really no reason for the Ventra card (not that they couldn't have just made the Chicago Card work on Pace if it didn't already).

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on March 15, 2013 at 9:57am

Breaking when scanning?  That's one I've never heard before.

I just recently got my 2nd card. The first one lasted 4 years intact, until it expired and CTA issued a new one.  The breakage issue may be a guy problem - sitting on it in a wallet/stack of cards that's not thick enough to prevent it from bending repeatedly. I keep mine in a bag or jacket pocket - no bending, no breakage.


David crZven 10.6 said:

The Chicago card works currently on Pace.    The problem is that it is badly made and I must "break" one or two a year.  (Usually when the warm card is placed near the cold "touch pad" causing it to fracture.   

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on March 15, 2013 at 10:00am

I find the smoother quieter ride of the new cars much easier to handle. Haven't tried taking a bike on one yet. I'll never be a fan of the sideways-facing seats, though. Much easier to deal with people stress, train delay stress, etc. while looking out the windows rather than the middle of someone standing right in front of me.

James BlackHeron said:

I would much rather take the soft rocking of the new Red Line cars over the herky-jerky sudden acceleration & slamming on the brakes wiplash roughness that is the Blue Line.    The new Red Line cars do gently sway like a boat so if one isn't used to riding in a boat I can see how it might be a little different and off-putting.   But it is so smooth and quiet inside.  For me it's an improvement by a couple orders of magnitude.   I suppose everyone has a different perception of this though.

Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on March 20, 2013 at 10:18am

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-0320-cta-ventra-hid...

Uh oh.  The Trib's graphic shows a $2.95 fee just to reload the Ventra card via a credit card, something I do regularly with my ChicagoCard Plus for free.  A host of other nickel-and-dimes fees for "dormancy" (not using it), $2 to ask a question by phone, $10/hour for account research...  I may skip the Ventra card and just use my RFID-enabled credit card on transit next year (I just checked, and one of my credit cards is ready to go, while most of my other cards aren't RFID-capable).

Permalink Reply by Tricolor on March 20, 2013 at 10:25am

Ouch.  Those are some steep fees for things that shouldn't cost anything to do (particularly the reactivation/dormancy fee and the fund transfer between cards if you have more than one).  I haven't seen a deal this good for vendors since we had a leasing program for computers at work which we never did in my department but everyone else finally has realized was a scam, too.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on March 20, 2013 at 10:31am

Looks like another sweetheart deal for the "privatization" crony-capitalists given out by the typical chicago machine politician to their revolving door mega-corporation buddies.

All borne on the backs of the average fee-paying citizen who gets screwed once again.   

Can you say LAZ all over again?

Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on March 20, 2013 at 10:34am

I wonder if my little Mobil SpeedPass key fob would work on CTA scanners?  I haven't used it in years as I don't buy gasoline anymore.  It could be more convenient than handling a card while boarding a bus.

Permalink Reply by Crazy David 84 Furlongs on March 20, 2013 at 10:38am

I think, reading the article, that this only applies to the Ventra cards with the "optional" debit card feature.    Thus a Ventra card used ONLY for transit, would not have these fees.   That being said, the fees are particualrly offensive as you are paying the company to hold your money without interest.  Your choice, have them hold a lot of your money without paying lots of fees (put a lot of money on the card) or hold a little money and get the fees.   As for using another card, isn't the CTA going to charge more for the users of these other cards?  And, of course, you can't have a monthly pass in such circumstances.



Tricolor said:

Ouch.  Those are some steep fees for things that shouldn't cost anything to do (particularly the reactivation/dormancy fee and the fund transfer between cards if you have more than one).  I haven't seen a deal this good for vendors since we had a leasing program for computers at work which we never did in my department but everyone else finally has realized was a scam, too.

Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on March 20, 2013 at 10:48am

Oh, I think you're correct, David.  I didn't understand the Ventra card was split into two separate accounts, one for transit and one for general purchases.  I saw the Tribune graphic but hadn't spotted the accompanying article before posting here.

This, from the same article, leads me to believe you can do multi-day or monthly passes on a non-Ventra credit card:

"Some riders will decide not to use any type of Ventra card when it is introduced this summer and CTA and Pace begin to phase out existing fare cards through early 2014. Personal credit cards with the most up-to-date technology, called radio-frequency identification, will also be accepted as fare payment and to purchase multiday passes, and no convenience fees will be charged, officials said."

I still may try to avoid joining the Ventra system and just use my personal credit card.

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