Bikers Must Follow The Rules of The Road To Get Respect
From the "Virtually Impossible On A Bike, No Matter How Big A Jerk You Are" department: According to State Farm about 1 in 4 drivers admit to surfing the Web while driving.
Don't take my word for it though... read more here. Also, -1 Karma for the first Chainlinker who says they've seen a hipster texting as they ride. Yep. That happens. The hipster who does this (a) is very rare and (b) does not weigh 3,000 lbs.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Carter O'Brien on
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Amen. It is not simply a question of who is coming into contact with who, this is a very high density urban landscape & the butterfly effect and law of unintended consequences also merit consideration.
AFAIC, if a car swerves to avoid a cyclist running a light and ends up injuring someone else in the process, it's that cyclist who is ultimately at fault. No different than how if someone opens their car door and forces a cyclist into traffic the fault lies with the catalyst, the person opening the door, not the motorist who was behaving perfectly legally and had no time to react.
Jeff Schneider said:It's nice to feel smug that as cyclists, having orders of magnitude less kinetic energy than a moving car, we don't pose much danger to anyone in a collision. And it's clearly true that almost nobody is killed, and few are seriously hurt by collisions with cyclists.
But Mike makes a good point. As a driver, you can only watch so many things at one time - cyclists, pedestrians, other cars, whatever. A cyclist riding erratically/carelessly is an unnecessary distraction for drivers whose senses are already overloaded in city traffic. We do need to keep that in mind.
Mike Zumwalt said:Well I get a minus 1 then. True anyone texting while biking will not kill anyone BUT they can be involved or cause an accident while riding "fixed, no hands" up Milwaukee due to distraction or inability to avoid a pothole, car door, cabbie doing a sudden U-turn... and it's not that rare at all.
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Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on
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Just out of curiosity, do you have a keystroke shortcut set up for "3000 lb death machine" or do you type it out each time? As long as you are treating "3000 lb death machine" as a defined term, I have some additional questions. If my car weighs 3400 lbs, is it still a death machine? If I have never actually hit a cyclist or pedestrian with my car, or been found at fault in an automobile accident, is my car still a 3000 lb death machine? If I ride my bikes each year more combined miles than I drive my car, is my car still a 3000 lb death machine? If I use my car to visit elderly parents in the suburbs, or take them to the doctor, or take them to the hospital, am I obligated to tell them that they are riding in a death machine? I just want to make sure I'm clear on the terminology.
Chi Lowe 12.5+ mi said:Nope, but by the numbers, no where near as common as people driving 3,000 lb death machines while doing it. No matter how common, it's not even close.
Mike Zumwalt said:[snip]
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Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on
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Now you're just being pedantic.
Kevin C said:Just out of curiosity, do you have a keystroke shortcut set up for "3000 lb death machine" or do you type it out each time? As long as you are treating "3000 lb death machine" as a defined term, I have some additional questions. If my car weighs 3400 lbs, is it still a death machine? If I have never actually hit a cyclist or pedestrian with my car, or been found at fault in an automobile accident, is my car still a 3000 lb death machine? If I ride my bikes each year more combined miles than I drive my car, is my car still a 3000 lb death machine? If I use my car to visit elderly parents in the suburbs, or take them to the doctor, or take them to the hospital, am I obligated to tell them that they are riding in a death machine? I just want to make sure I'm clear on the terminology.
Chi Lowe 12.5+ mi said:Nope, but by the numbers, no where near as common as people driving 3,000 lb death machines while doing it. No matter how common, it's not even close.
Mike Zumwalt said:[snip]
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Permalink Reply by BruceBikes on
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Kevin C said:
As long as you are treating "3000 lb death machine" as a defined term, I have some additional questions. If my car weighs 3400 lbs, is it still a death machine?
Yes, but it would technically be a 3400 lb death machine. It is common practice in the death machine industry, however, to round destructive capacity to the nearest 1000 lbs.
Kevin C said:
If I have never actually hit a cyclist or pedestrian with my car, or been found at fault in an automobile accident, is my car still a 3000 lb death machine?
Yes; a machine doesn't stop being a machine even when one doesn't use it for it's intrinsic purpose.
Kevin C said:
If I ride my bikes each year more combined miles than I drive my car, is my car still a 3000 lb death machine?
Yes. You might ask yourself, "If I microwave my bagels each year more than I toast them, is my toaster still a gluttony machine." The answer of course is yes.
Kevin C said:
If I use my car to visit elderly parents in the suburbs, or take them to the doctor, or take them to the hospital, am I obligated to tell them that they are riding in a death machine?
No. Only morally superior users would likely warn occupants of the machine's true nature, however, these users are mutually exclusive of users who operate the machine at its full potential.
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Well, h' has ridden in my "death machine" twice that I can recall. Once to meet with police and recover a stolen bike; once to schlep stuff over to the Pulaski field house for a Bike Winter Swap. Both, without incident.
In other "death machine" news, my parents were able to attend the baptism of their first great grandchild last night. I guess they were just lucky.
h' 1.0 said:Interesting, thanks. Have there been any studies to help develop a standardized measure for describing the full killing potential of the machine in question?
BruceBikes said:Kevin C said:
If I use my car to visit elderly parents in the suburbs, or take them to the doctor, or take them to the hospital, am I obligated to tell them that they are riding in a death machine?
No. Only morally superior users would likely warn occupants of the machine's true nature, however, these users are mutually exclusive of users who operate the machine at its full potential.
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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on
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When will people realize that the whole militant anti-car thing is more hurtful to the cause of cycling than it is helpful?
Ever wonder why people think cyclists are smug assholes? You're answer is right here.
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I'm sorry that I am against the things that are taking the lives of 30,000 people annually, in the US alone; destroying communities; and polluting the planet.
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You know exactly what I mean when I say that so stop it you big jerk.
Stop being a bully.
h' 1.0 said:Yes, because when a driver pulls over to ask for directions, or when a coworker complains about traffic on the expressway, or even when we see someone walking on the sidewalk with their car keys in hand, Chi-Lowe and I and the rest of our militia always make it a point to berate them for their deadly habit.
notoriousDUG said:When will people realize that the whole militant anti-car thing is more hurtful to the cause of cycling than it is helpful?
Ever wonder why people think cyclists are smug assholes? You're answer is right here.
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First off stop using the 30,000 number when it comes to deaths and start using a percentage; what is the percentage of people who operate a motor vehicle who die? How about over the whole population? It's a pretty small number in all reality.
How are cars 'destroying communities?
Yes, they pollute but they are getting cleaner and cleaner. The pollution is why it makes sense to encourage people to use other transport more but it does not necessarily make cars evil, or the people who drive them evil.
Face the facts, cars are a part of the world we live in. Right now for lots of people they are the answer to their transportation needs. You are making it harder to convince them otherwise when you act like a preachy asshole.
Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:I'm sorry that I am against the things that are taking the lives of 30,000 people annually, in the US alone; destroying communities; and polluting the planet.
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Cars are the answer to many people's transportation needs because our civilization was purposely built in the last fifty years to require a car for daily use. It's not like cars immediately filled a hole in their transport needs.
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That really has zero to do with what I am saying. What happened before does not matter beyond the fact that we are now dealing with it's results. You can cry, whine, complain and otherwise be a complete wiener about it how things got this way, which does zero good, or you can accept what has happened, where we are and work to improve it.
Stop complaining about the past and what is going on right now and do something about it; if you're complaining with out making a suggestion or working towards a solution you're just bitching.
What do you think we should do to solve the problem? Practical answers only please.
What have YOU done lately to change what you don't like? Signing petitions and complaining here don't count either.
Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:Cars are the answer to many people's transportation needs because our civilization was purposely built in the last fifty years to require a car for daily use. It's not like cars immediately filled a hole in their transport needs.
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