Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ali on May 6, 2009 at 4:46pm

What he said was completely relevant to the discussion! It is you who is being a complete ass. And do not make the mistake of assuming everyone who wears biking shorts and jersey is a weekend warrior.

Remember Steven Lane? He got killed in Tour da Chicago last year doing this same type of crap you are tying to defend? Nobody and I mean NOBODY stood up and said, "Well what the hell was he thinking doing an alleycat?" If you want to take risks take them in a way which will not endanger others in the meantime. I just hope that this hipster/scenester crowd will pick a different scene damn soon...

Blowing through 6-way intersections at night doing 20+ without brakes is complete and utter stupidity at best, megalomaniac suicidal tendency with no regard for safety of others at worst. You want to see how tough you are? Go out at the Velodrome and see for yourself if you can hang with the riders out there...

-Ali


Brett Ratner said:

Thanks for the tip, Jon. Will you now be advising me on doing my taxes? Should I pay you a consulting fee for your sage advice and wisdom? Does wearing spandex in your profile photo make you seem like a bicycle authority, or a weekend warrior who feels compelled to tell people who ride every day, 12 months out of the year how they should ride?

I'm not saying I disagree with your opinion. But when participating in discussion forums, Jon, please realize that there's is a fine line between expressing one's opinion, and being an opinionated ass. You've now served as a fine example of the latter...and I'd like to add that in the process you have positioned yourself as the one who is, indeed, stupid.

Please, moving forward, Jon, be nice or post somewhere else.

Jon said:

"and there was a fair amount of danger blowing through busy six-corner intersections."

I'm sorry, but if you're stupid enough to blow through busy six-corner intersections, you damn well deserve what's coming to you. Not only are you endangering your own life, you're endangering the safety of the pedestrians, drivers, and anyone else on the road. Have a little respect.

It was hard to type that without curses.

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Permalink Reply by Brett Ratner on May 6, 2009 at 6:09pm

Ali:

Ummm...I wasn't defending illegal and/or dangerous activity. But thank you for reading my reply as carefully and thoughtfully as you did. I feel so much better knowing that my point got across.

Since it seems apparent I need to spell stuff out for the remedial readers out there: I have absolutely no desire to endanger myself or anyone else. I do not condone others riding recklessly and/or endangering themselves and others. I believe that we as bicyclists need to set a good example to other bicyclists and represent the bicycling community responsibly to the community as a whole. For the record all four of my bikes are equipped with highly functional brakes. And despite my "tough" appearance and rugged good looks, there is no place I need to be bad enough and no rider I need to keep up with bad enough to risk the life of myself or a driver or a pedestrian. In other words, if I'm on a group ride and the light turns red at a busy intersection, I stop. If other people want to blow the intersection, that's their deal, not mine.

What I take issue with is people like Jon (and now people like you) who make lots of assumptions and think they can judge other people.

Android886 started this post. The way he rides is not the way I ride...but I, (unlike you) don't think I'm so awesome that I can judge other people. It seemed to me like the Knife ride would be enjoyable to him, and filled with people who ride like he does, so I told him about it and told him what the experience was like.

Again, if you or Jon or whomever can't be nice and keep your judgmental crap to yourself, go away.


Ali said:

What he said was completely relevant to the discussion! It is you who is being a complete ass. And do not make the mistake of assuming everyone who wears biking shorts and jersey is a weekend warrior.
Remember Steven Lane? He got killed in Tour da Chicago last year doing this same type of crap you are tying to defend? Nobody and I mean NOBODY stood up and said, "Well what the hell was he thinking doing an alleycat?" If you want to take risks take them in a way which will not endanger others in the meantime. I just hope that this hipster/scenester crowd will pick a different scene damn soon... Blowing through 6-way intersections at night doing 20+ without brakes is complete and utter stupidity at best, megalomaniac suicidal tendency with no regard for safety of others at worst. You want to see how tough you are? Go out at the Velodrome and see for yourself if you can hang with the riders out there...

-Ali


Brett Ratner said:

Thanks for the tip, Jon. Will you now be advising me on doing my taxes? Should I pay you a consulting fee for your sage advice and wisdom? Does wearing spandex in your profile photo make you seem like a bicycle authority, or a weekend warrior who feels compelled to tell people who ride every day, 12 months out of the year how they should ride?

I'm not saying I disagree with your opinion. But when participating in discussion forums, Jon, please realize that there's is a fine line between expressing one's opinion, and being an opinionated ass. You've now served as a fine example of the latter...and I'd like to add that in the process you have positioned yourself as the one who is, indeed, stupid. Please, moving forward, Jon, be nice or post somewhere else.
Jon said:

"and there was a fair amount of danger blowing through busy six-corner intersections."

I'm sorry, but if you're stupid enough to blow through busy six-corner intersections, you damn well deserve what's coming to you. Not only are you endangering your own life, you're endangering the safety of the pedestrians, drivers, and anyone else on the road. Have a little respect.
It was hard to type that without curses.

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Permalink Reply by Brett Ratner on May 6, 2009 at 6:27pm

h3:

I agree with you 100% here.

It's totally inappropriate a tragedy such as that got dragged into a petty internet exchange. My apologies.

h3 said:

Kind of hoping you guys would be able to work this out, but now that Steven Lane has been claimed as a casualty of this discussion, I think it may be time to draw the line . . .

Regarding the Alleycat tragedy, that's still pretty painful for a lot of people to read for a lot of different reasons-- I kind of hope we can let it lie. For the record, if I ever suffer the same fate, I don't want to be memorialized by a thousand hostile internet exchanges on message boards and news sites.

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Permalink Reply by Jon on May 7, 2009 at 1:00am

Perhaps my language wasn't the most agreeable, but once again, using the term "blowing through 6 way intersections" seems like you don't seem to care about anyone else on the road but yourself. Its disrespectful to pedestrians, auto's and other riders, it's putting everyone else at risk even if you don't care for your own safety and frankly that seems selfish. Further more, it seems to go against the reasoning of CCM, which many people on this board seem to be rather big fans of.

I'm not arguing with the type of bike you ride or what you wear. You may insult me for wearing spandex all you please, I know why I wear it, I know why it helps me when I do. You wield the term weekend warrior as an insult, although I'm not sure why. I have a staunch opposition to driving anywhere in the city, if I can avoid it, choosing to go by bicycle. Also, this is one of the first times I feel I've made such a statement that's labeled me as "an opinionated ass" on this board. I guess my words could've been seen with an angry tinge to them, but you also seemed to jump down ones throat just as quickly my friend.

As for taxes, I'm a pretty strong advocate of Turbotax, especially their free service. I like the way it saves your financial records from the prior year, and then will fill in the applicable spaces to make the process quick and efficient.

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Permalink Reply by Peter Hales on May 7, 2009 at 2:43am

Saturday and Sunday 730am Greenleaf and Judson in Evanston, about 1 mile no. of the Chicago border. 63 miles of hard riding, with sprints, jumps, chases and some fast disciplined group work heading back. Because of the legends surrounding this "Team Judson/2CC [2nd City Cycling]" ride, overly aggressive, inexperienced group riders sometimes arrive and disrupt the long-tenured group. When that happens, medium chaos sometimes emerges.

2CC/Turin Wednesday night ride (530-8pm; sometimes 8-830-- contact Turin in Evanston) is extremely fast and shorter-- 34-45 miles.

Ask around about the Pizza Hut Ride.

XXXRacing runs a good weekend group ride out of Wicker Park.

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Permalink Reply by Jamie on May 7, 2009 at 3:46am

Peter Hales said:

XXXRacing runs a good weekend group ride out of Wicker Park.

it's a good route (about 50 miles) and the XXX guys that I've encountered are good peeps. five of us are doing that ride this evening if anyone wants to join in. leaving at 5:30 from North Ave. and Wood.




I have no opinion on TurboTax or weekend warriors. I like opinionated asses though.

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Permalink Reply by Jon on May 7, 2009 at 4:12am

You should see my opinionated ass in pearl izumi attack shorts...damn gina.


Jamie said:

Peter Hales said:

XXXRacing runs a good weekend group ride out of Wicker Park.

it's a good route (about 50 miles) and the XXX guys that I've encountered are good peeps. five of us are doing that ride this evening if anyone wants to join in. leaving at 5:30 from North Ave. and Wood.




I have no opinion on TurboTax or weekend warriors. I like opinionated asses though.

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Permalink Reply by Ali on May 7, 2009 at 6:46am

I on the other hand have been well documented disliking fixie riders...It absolutely drives me nuts to see a nice road bike with a chopped derailleur hanger converted into a fixie. It's like watching a Lamborghini being driven like a Fiat.

-Ali

P.S. Brent: You mentioned earlier that you did the ride a few times in the past, and it is my understanding that if you do a ride a few times you are indeed supporting it and the way it is being ridden(in this case carelessly throughout the city.) It is only a matter of time before one or three of these retards are going to end up under a garbage truck while they are "blowing through" a 6-way intersection but no worries; as it will not be their fault I am sure. Oh and just because you ride every day of the month for 12 months does not automatically make you an authority either.

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Permalink Reply by 2slowtrek on May 7, 2009 at 10:48am

subscribed

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Permalink Reply by Brett Ratner on May 7, 2009 at 12:44pm

I don't want to get sucked into this mess any more than I have...but I can't resist.

Jon...my apologies. The spandex comment was out of line and more an emotional response than anything else. By me making assumptions about you, I'm therefore guilty of the things I was accusing you of. Honestly, I'm agreeing 100% with your opinions about safety and consideration for others. I just think that you took what I was saying out of context and made a bunch of assumptions when you know nothing about me. Anyway, we're cool, right? And yes, your ass looks very nice in the shorts.

Ali...I say what I'm about to say from the perspective of someone who likes to ride fixed gear with fixed gear people, someone who likes to ride road bikes with the road bike crowd, someone who enjoys mountain biking, commuting, and so forth...I like biking in general, and I have respect for all kinds of riders. So here I what I think:

You absolutely don't know what the hell you are talking about when you spout off about fixed gear bikes. You may know tons of stuff about cyclocross or criteriums or whatever, but I hate to say it, you are a stone cold idiot when it comes to urban messenger-style riding or "hipsters" or whatever you want to call it.

Having ridden with brakeless fixie riders, I am truly amazed at their ability to flow effortlessly through traffic.

When I said "blow through intersections," in reality what I was talking about are riders who are very much in control and in harmony with their environment. Brakeless fixie riders are thinking three steps ahead of most riders (they have to be), and in reality are among the safest and most skilled riders in the city.

I'll take android886 over you in a pace line any day. The moment that car pulls out suddenly, you'll be the one on the brakes, sphincter puckered, headed toward the ditch. As you tumble into the weeds, Android will be safely around the car happily pedaling away because he saw it coming and planned his evasive maneuver accordingly.

Bottom line, you're always hating on fixed gear riders because they are riding at a higher level than you and you don't understand it so instead you have to criticize it.





Ali said:

I on the other hand have been well documented disliking fixie riders...It absolutely drives me nuts to see a nice road bike with a chopped derailleur hanger converted into a fixie. It's like watching a Lamborghini being driven like a Fiat.
-Ali
P.S. Brent: You mentioned earlier that you did the ride a few times in the past, and it is my understanding that if you do a ride a few times you are indeed supporting it and the way it is being ridden(in this case carelessly throughout the city.) It is only a matter of time before one or three of these retards are going to end up under a garbage truck while they are "blowing through" a 6-way intersection but no worries; as it will not be their fault I am sure. Oh and just because you ride every day of the month for 12 months does not automatically make you an authority either.

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Permalink Reply by android886 on May 7, 2009 at 1:30pm

brett, I couldnt have put i any better. i learned to ride on city streets as a messenger in SF. i took my fair share of getting hit and crashing. I started out on a mountain bike, to road bike then to a track bike. I have to say riding a fixed gear track bike definitely rewires you style of riding, instead of relying on your bikes brakes to save your ass in a bind, you rely on your manuverability to get around any obstacle that might come across your path.
When i rode with wolfpack, i would say it was about 85% fix gear riders, riding together in a pack for up to 50 miles. There was never an issue with all the riders staying in a group and being safe.
either way, as long as people are riding bikes i'm totally into it no matter what they are riding. If you want to ride safe? thats fine. You want to ride like a maniac? go for it. thats the beauty of cycling!
Brett Ratner said:

I don't want to get sucked into this mess any more than I have...but I can't resist.

Jon...my apologies. The spandex comment was out of line and more an emotional response than anything else. By me making assumptions about you, I'm therefore guilty of the things I was accusing you of. Honestly, I'm agreeing 100% with your opinions about safety and consideration for others. I just think that you took what I was saying out of context and made a bunch of assumptions when you know nothing about me. Anyway, we're cool, right? And yes, your ass looks very nice in the shorts.

Ali...I say what I'm about to say from the perspective of someone who likes to ride fixed gear with fixed gear people, someone who likes to ride road bikes with the road bike crowd, someone who enjoys mountain biking, commuting, and so forth...I like biking in general, and I have respect for all kinds of riders. So here I what I think:

You absolutely don't know what the hell you are talking about when you spout off about fixed gear bikes. You may know tons of stuff about cyclocross or criteriums or whatever, but I hate to say it, you are a stone cold idiot when it comes to urban messenger-style riding or "hipsters" or whatever you want to call it.

Having ridden with brakeless fixie riders, I am truly amazed at their ability to flow effortlessly through traffic.

When I said "blow through intersections," in reality what I was talking about are riders who are very much in control and in harmony with their environment. Brakeless fixie riders are thinking three steps ahead of most riders (they have to be), and in reality are among the safest and most skilled riders in the city.

I'll take android886 over you in a pace line any day. The moment that car pulls out suddenly, you'll be the one on the brakes, sphincter puckered, headed toward the ditch. As you tumble into the weeds, Android will be safely around the car happily pedaling away because he saw it coming and planned his evasive maneuver accordingly.

Bottom line, you're always hating on fixed gear riders because they are riding at a higher level than you and you don't understand it so instead you have to criticize it.





Ali said:

I on the other hand have been well documented disliking fixie riders...It absolutely drives me nuts to see a nice road bike with a chopped derailleur hanger converted into a fixie. It's like watching a Lamborghini being driven like a Fiat.
-Ali
P.S. Brent: You mentioned earlier that you did the ride a few times in the past, and it is my understanding that if you do a ride a few times you are indeed supporting it and the way it is being ridden(in this case carelessly throughout the city.) It is only a matter of time before one or three of these retards are going to end up under a garbage truck while they are "blowing through" a 6-way intersection but no worries; as it will not be their fault I am sure. Oh and just because you ride every day of the month for 12 months does not automatically make you an authority either.

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Permalink Reply by brandon lee* on May 7, 2009 at 4:40pm

whew, now that that storm has passed, anyone interested in a ride similar to what android886 is talking about? because i sure am. (that sounded cheesy as fuck... oh well)

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