Good Intentions, Bad Execution -- Berteau Greenway

Its probably not fair and a bit too early to judge, but the Berteau Greenway looks to be a disaster in the making for Bicycles.    They have decided to keep it "open" end to end for cars rather than putting in a series of cul de sac's open for bicycles.  To "calm" the traffic, they have narrowed the intersections.  Will it slow down cars, if two cars are coming in opposite directions, yes, certainly.   But with bicycles involved, it may well simply result in cars crowding bicycles to the side of the road.    Add to this the fact that at one way portions of Berteau, they are going to allow two way bicycling....  which, in addition to being a bad idea due to the narrowness of the street, sends the message to at least a portion of the community that Salmoning is not a bad idea.    Maybe I will love it.... but my current plan is to find another street to come across... perhaps Lincoln to Grace..

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Permalink Reply by Renee Patten on October 1, 2013 at 5:27am

Middle of the road markings going in today outside the office I work for @ Ravenswood! Lady said "pedal power" as I was taking the pic and giving her a thumbs up :D

Permalink Reply by JeffB on October 1, 2013 at 5:41am

I'm surprised you see that as a win.  Its an already narrow spot on Clark and they've just forced bikes and cars closer together.  I ride this frequently and I do not like it.  I always take the lane there, which I shouldn't have to.  Its overkill; should be bumpouts or ped island, not both.

Duppie 13.5185km said:

As part of the Greenway, they put in bumpouts and a pedestrian island where Clark and Berteau meet. To make it all fit, they took out some free parking spaces on the east side of Clark. Cars regularly speed on that stretch, so this should slow them down. They also painted the contra flow bike lanes.

Overall, the biggest improvement is various pieces of infrastructure to slow traffic down. Sounds like a win to me.

Permalink Reply by Craig S. on October 1, 2013 at 5:47am

Riding south through there the other day, with no cars around me, I was terrified at what could happen with motorized traffic. Whomever designed this deserves to be bitch slapped, tarred and feathered.  This little section on Clark is a huge FAIL, no win whatsoever, it's just another area for me to avoid.

Duppie 13.5185km said:

As part of the Greenway, they put in bumpouts and a pedestrian island where Clark and Berteau meet. To make it all fit, they took out some free parking spaces on the east side of Clark. Cars regularly speed on that stretch, so this should slow them down. They also painted the contra flow bike lanes.

Overall, the biggest improvement is various pieces of infrastructure to slow traffic down. Sounds like a win to me.

Permalink Reply by Rich S on October 1, 2013 at 6:04am

I just noticed this reply. Yes I do take the lane at that intersection. The bumpout pretty much forces me to. The problem is that most drivers won't wait behind me. They usually move alongside me and sometimes get quite close. 

The pic that Duppie posted looks horrific. I wouldn't want to go through there at the same time as a car whose driver WAS paying attention let alone a distracted or texting driver. Bikers shouldn't be forced to take the lane because of a stupidly placed bumpout. I agree that this creates a potentially dangerous pinch point and I'm skeptical that this will have the intended effect of slowing/calming traffic. 


Davis Moore said:

Take the lane at intersections.

Rich S said:

The only bumpout I ride past regularly is the one on eastbound Webster at Lister. It's the stop sign just before Elston. My typical experience when arriving at that stop sign at about the same time as cars is that the drivers will just squeeze closer to you rather than wait behind you. It seems that it rarely enters most drivers heads that waiting behind a biker is an option. So I find that the bumpout actually makes it more dangerous there and doesn't force drivers to slow down any more than they already do for the stop sign. The bumpout gives you less room to enter an intersection.

Permalink Reply by Sarah D. on October 1, 2013 at 6:35am

Guys, you're supposed to take the lane. There is a learning curve for (all) road users, so expect it to be sorta hairy at first, but be patient. It's gonna slow traffic, which is the point. Every change takes time.

I rode the whole Greenway today, and it was nice. Signals aren't active yet, and there are some spots with random markings (and missing bike markings for westbound cyclists from Damen to Lincoln), but the guys are out working now. 

My favorite part? These signs:

Permalink Reply by JeffB on October 1, 2013 at 6:39am

Right.  I've already noticed northbound cars gunning it at the green to get ahead of me before I reach the pinch point.  Agree with Craig S.: huge fail

Cameron 7.5 mi said:

I haven't been through there recently, but hated it when it was under construction and started avoiding the area. Pinch points create conflict zones and aren't good for anyone.



JeffB (7+ miles) said:

I'm surprised you see that as a win.  Its an already narrow spot on Clark and they've just forced bikes and cars closer together.  I ride this frequently and I do not like it.  I always take the lane there, which I shouldn't have to.  Its overkill; should be bumpouts or ped island, not both.

Duppie 13.5185km said:

As part of the Greenway, they put in bumpouts and a pedestrian island where Clark and Berteau meet. To make it all fit, they took out some free parking spaces on the east side of Clark. Cars regularly speed on that stretch, so this should slow them down. They also painted the contra flow bike lanes.

Overall, the biggest improvement is various pieces of infrastructure to slow traffic down. Sounds like a win to me.

Permalink Reply by millenial removing Bernie tattoo on October 1, 2013 at 6:48am

So the city is spending millions on protected bike lanes to keep childen and old women safe, but if you happen to be riding on this minor street called Clark then you better TAKE THE LANE.

 

lol, just lol.

Sarah D. 1-3.3 said:

Guys, you're supposed to take the lane. There is a learning curve for (all) road users, so expect it to be sorta hairy at first, but be patient. It's gonna slow traffic, which is the point. Every change takes time.

I rode the whole Greenway today, and it was nice. Signals aren't active yet, and there are some spots with random markings (and missing bike markings for westbound cyclists from Damen to Lincoln), but the guys are out working now. 

My favorite part? These signs:

Permalink Reply by Shaun Jacobsen on October 1, 2013 at 7:31am

When it was under construction and all those construction signs were up, it was indeed safer, and I liked it, because the lanes were truly narrow. Now they are wide enough for a bike and a car, but not for them to be 3+ feet apart from each other. That's what makes it dangerous now.

I don't even think the parking here is paid parking and wish they'd just get rid of it for a bike lane. Biking down this part of Clark St is not fun because of the buses that park on the east side, and the speeding traffic. There are no residences or businesses adjacent to any cemetery walls and all of the parking along them should be done away with... this applies to Clark here, up by Andersonville, Lawrence in Uptown, Montrose in Uptown, etc... all those places have parking next to the cemetery that is free (one exception) and could be good connections.

That's the only way you could make it safer at this particular pinch point, IMO.

Craig S. said:

Riding south through there the other day, with no cars around me, I was terrified at what could happen with motorized traffic. Whomever designed this deserves to be bitch slapped, tarred and feathered.  This little section on Clark is a huge FAIL, no win whatsoever, it's just another area for me to avoid.

Duppie 13.5185km said:

As part of the Greenway, they put in bumpouts and a pedestrian island where Clark and Berteau meet. To make it all fit, they took out some free parking spaces on the east side of Clark. Cars regularly speed on that stretch, so this should slow them down. They also painted the contra flow bike lanes.

Overall, the biggest improvement is various pieces of infrastructure to slow traffic down. Sounds like a win to me.

Permalink Reply by Rich S on October 1, 2013 at 8:21am

Can't wait for the city to build more infrastructure forcing cyclists to take the lane! Enough traffic calming and we can just slow the cars down enough so that they are driving as fast as we're riding. Then we can all mix it up happily! 

I'll take the lane when I have to and I'm confident doing so. Like if there's a delivery truck in the bike lane. :)  But it's silly to create infrastructure that creates pinch points. I will be avoiding this block until those drivers are further along that learning curve or Chicago becomes Amsterdam. 



Sarah D. 1-3.3 said:

Guys, you're supposed to take the lane. There is a learning curve for (all) road users, so expect it to be sorta hairy at first, but be patient. It's gonna slow traffic, which is the point. Every change takes time.

Permalink Reply by Duppie on October 1, 2013 at 9:55am

What's with the desire to stay ahead of cars? Let them pass already!

I ride up Southport daily. By the time I get to the other end of that intersection after the lights turn green, cars are already way ahead of me and I have a free roadway. That works because there are rarely more than a few cars waiting on Southport to turn left on Clark.

Jeff Schneider said:

Going north on Clark, I often hit the red light at Southport.  Now that we have the pedestrian island, I go through the intersection before the light turns green, and I ride fast to get past the island before the drivers can get there.  I also take the lane just in case one of them catches up to me...

I general I like pedestrian islands and other traffic calming features.  What isn't so great here is that drivers approaching this island will be going quite fast, as there are no other calming features for many blocks in either direction.

JeffB (7+ miles) said:

Right.  I've already noticed northbound cars gunning it at the green to get ahead of me before I reach the pinch point.  Agree with Craig S.: huge fail

Cameron 7.5 mi said:

I haven't been through there recently, but hated it when it was under construction and started avoiding the area. Pinch points create conflict zones and aren't good for anyone.



JeffB (7+ miles) said:

I'm surprised you see that as a win.  Its an already narrow spot on Clark and they've just forced bikes and cars closer together.  I ride this frequently and I do not like it.  I always take the lane there, which I shouldn't have to.  Its overkill; should be bumpouts or ped island, not both.

Duppie 13.5185km said:

As part of the Greenway, they put in bumpouts and a pedestrian island where Clark and Berteau meet. To make it all fit, they took out some free parking spaces on the east side of Clark. Cars regularly speed on that stretch, so this should slow them down. They also painted the contra flow bike lanes.

Overall, the biggest improvement is various pieces of infrastructure to slow traffic down. Sounds like a win to me.

Permalink Reply by Duppie on October 1, 2013 at 9:56am

+1

Sarah D. 1-3.3 said:

My favorite part? These signs:

Permalink Reply by Alex Z on October 2, 2013 at 2:00am

I think this is not the case when coming on Clark northbound. In my experience there is often a long line of cars on Clark waiting to proceed northbound at the Southport red light.

Duppie 13.5185km said:

What's with the desire to stay ahead of cars? Let them pass already!

I ride up Southport daily. By the time I get to the other end of that intersection after the lights turn green, cars are already way ahead of me and I have a free roadway. That works because there are rarely more than a few cars waiting on Southport to turn left on Clark.

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