Running Red Lights & Pedestrian Cross Walks

I am a casual commuter bicyclist. I ride to work down Milwaukee via my bike or the 56 bus. (Bucktown to West Loop)

One thing I notice during my commutes is that at certain "T" intersections 19 out of 20 bicyclists will not stop at the red light and pass through it. It doesn't matter if there are pedestrians at cross-walks or incoming traffic. Some will not even slow down.

Personally, it drives me crazy. I find it to be completely irresponsible, dangerous and discourteous at these times of day. It wouldn't concern me as much if it was not during rush hour. However, we are talking about people trying to use the crosswalks and cars attempting to drive normally and merge onto busy roads.

Example:  Milwaukee & Wabansia - This intersection has 2 crosswalks across Milwaukee. It has a day care & public library. Foot traffic is high with parents/kids/strollers and commuters. Bicyclists do not stop even if there are people crossing or traffic coming onto Milwaukee. I have seen them swerve around strollers and disregard any safety concerns. Personally I have almost been hit once, saw 2 near collisions with strollers and people held up from crossing because of a stream of unconcerned bicyclists.

Example:  Milwaukee & Noble - This intersection has one highly used crosswalk across Milwaukee. It is by a school with a lot of student pedestrians (with a crossing guard) and a good amount of senior citizens. Again, Bicyclist run this red all of the time even if there are people crossing. Personally, I have seen near collisions with groups of students, 3 seniors and cars making left turns.

If this was a rare occurrence I wouldn't be posting. In fact, this issue alone prompted me to create an account and post at Chainlink.

I want to understand WHY people think this is okay and don't think it is a danger to themselves and others?

Why can't they stop?

Why do they not care about the safety of others?

Why do they not care about the rules of the road?

The mindset is what I'm looking to understand. Right now I just think they are selfish a-holes who value their time/safety/space more than others. On days with near collisions I even get angry to the point of yelling. (I saw an old woman missed by nearly 3 inches. [http://abcnews.go.com/US/bicyclist-us-guilty-vehicular-homicide/sto...])

I want to be proven wrong and have an understanding of why this happens.

Thanks,

KZ

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Duppie on August 8, 2013 at 2:54am

So, you're not ignorant.

But your reading skills approach those of a 5th grader...

MFrank said:

ignorance: lack of information.

I don't lack information; I'm pretty well informed. 

We've already established in this thread that its ok to run certain red lights (like at the top of a T intersection, i.e. Milwaukee/Elston or Milwaukee/Noble), so most of us knowingly break the law, or believe in our own judgement as to which red lights are 'ok' to run and which aren't.

I don't come to a complete stop at every stop sign and put my foot on the ground and I'm assuming you don't either. We are living in the grey area of illegal actions that are not enforced (albieit not designed for bikes either), I'm just in a different position in the area of grey than you and I'm willing to state my position. God forbid there be some dissent in bike land.

Am I wrong for choosing to ride how I want and not the way you want me to ride? None of us ride to the letter of the law, so why is it that what you believe is ok for you but what I believe is not ok for me?


igz said:

the arrogance is strong with this one...

MFrank said:

I run red lights down Milwaukee in my commute. This is me not feeling bad.

I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine.

Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on August 8, 2013 at 3:04am

And the sense of entitlement that is ubiquitous in most aspects of life in the U.S. today and causes so much conflict . . .
 
igz said:

the arrogance is strong with this one...

MFrank said:

I run red lights down Milwaukee in my commute. This is me not feeling bad.

I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine.

Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on August 8, 2013 at 3:15am

One of your rules wouldn't be 'Don't run me over' would it?


MFrank said:

I run red lights down Milwaukee in my commute. This is me not feeling bad.

I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine.

Permalink Reply by Jared Karczek on August 8, 2013 at 4:56am

Just out of curiosity. What happens when you hit someone, or someone else hits someone while trying to avoid you?

I got nailed head-on by another "my rules" kind of guy on the lakefront path a few years ago. He thought he could save a few seconds by veering, at full speed, around some slower traffic. It just so happens that when he did that, he popped into the middle of my southbound lane and clobbered me. Unfortunately for me, I broke my arm and had to go to Northwestern where I shelled out $3500 for treatment. They guy who hit me? He popped right up, got on his bike and took off.


MFrank said:

I run red lights down Milwaukee in my commute. This is me not feeling bad.

I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine.

Permalink Reply by MFrank on August 8, 2013 at 5:20am
One of my rules is passing on the left and saying "on your left" so i guess so. So far in life ive run over 0 people



Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

One of your rules wouldn't be 'Don't run me over' would it?


MFrank said:

I run red lights down Milwaukee in my commute. This is me not feeling bad.

I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine.

Permalink Reply by MFrank on August 8, 2013 at 5:26am
Only time ive crashed was into a pedicab making a sharp left during a midnight marauders. We were both hurt but not too bad. All in all we took it in stride.

I cant speak for others riders. Sorry for your pain dude.



Jared Karczek said:

Just out of curiosity. What happens when you hit someone, or someone else hits someone while trying to avoid you?

I got nailed head-on by another "my rules" kind of guy on the lakefront path a few years ago. He thought he could save a few seconds by veering, at full speed, around some slower traffic. It just so happens that when he did that, he popped into the middle of my southbound lane and clobbered me. Unfortunately for me, I broke my arm and had to go to Northwestern where I shelled out $3500 for treatment. They guy who hit me? He popped right up, got on his bike and took off.


MFrank said:

I run red lights down Milwaukee in my commute. This is me not feeling bad.

I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine.

Permalink Reply by igz on August 8, 2013 at 6:50am

it is precisely because of people like you, of your mindset, that we are having this discussion. and it is people like you, your actions, that make it more difficult for the rest of to cooperate with drivers and pedestrians on the road, especially when we are trying to sort out the differences, not exacerbate them.

and im not holding you up to my standard. im holding you up to the standard that is the law. and maybe that of common courtesy.

and im not even holding you up to that really, ill agree with you as others have here, some of these laws are a bit stupid and irrelevant to bikes. its not necessarily right to compare a bike to a car when it comes to velocity, and its not right to compare the acceleration of a bike to a motor vehicle. its is an unfortunate paradox that we are lumped together as the same. but for now, it is just that, it is the law.

unlike everyone else who has mentioned, they will make the necessary precautions of entering an intersection, of assessing a stop sign or yield sign, of taking note of pedestrian crossing signs - that we are equally obliged to honor a right of way as much as a motor vehicle does.

but what i will call out is your arrogance on the matter, the self entitlement attitude that "i can do what i want because i dont care about the rules".

i hope that you dont get robbed or stuck up by someone "who doesnt care about the rules" because i expect you to be ok with it. hope your mother or child doesnt get killed by a drunk driver "because they dont care about the rules" because i expect you to be ok with it. you know what, you convinced me, youre right! i wont hold you to any standard but your own. and because of this, i will take your position. this is me not feeling bad if it does. i expect you to be ok with it.

and yes, as Duppie points out, i said arrogance, not ignorance.  but you are proving both now.

Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on August 8, 2013 at 6:57am

How I imagine MFrank:

Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on August 8, 2013 at 9:07am

What I meant was, is it ok for others to run you over since "I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine."?  So if one of your rules is 'Don't run over me.', is it ok if someone decides that your little rule there doesn't apply to them?

MFrank said:

One of my rules is passing on the left and saying "on your left" so i guess so. So far in life ive run over 0 people



Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

One of your rules wouldn't be 'Don't run me over' would it?


MFrank said:

I run red lights down Milwaukee in my commute. This is me not feeling bad.

I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine.

Permalink Reply by MFrank on August 8, 2013 at 12:51pm

Lots of people decide that every day. I'm sure you've been cut off by numerous taxis, buses, and angry drivers just like me and everyone else on this thread. Of course it's not ok to get run over but I can't decide what rules/laws other people choose to follow. I can just react, whether I was in the right or not.


Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

What I meant was, is it ok for others to run you over since "I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine."?  So if one of your rules is 'Don't run over me.', is it ok if someone decides that your little rule there doesn't apply to them?

MFrank said:

One of my rules is passing on the left and saying "on your left" so i guess so. So far in life ive run over 0 people



Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

One of your rules wouldn't be 'Don't run me over' would it?


MFrank said:

I run red lights down Milwaukee in my commute. This is me not feeling bad.

I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine.

Permalink Reply by MFrank on August 8, 2013 at 12:55pm

I love Cartman, Thanks! My favorite episode is when he feeds Scott Tenorman's parents to him.

I'm sorry you can't deal with a voice of dissent.


Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:

How I imagine MFrank:

Permalink Reply by MFrank on August 8, 2013 at 12:56pm

elaborate?

Duppie 13.5185km said:

So, you're not ignorant.

But your reading skills approach those of a 5th grader...

MFrank said:

ignorance: lack of information.

I don't lack information; I'm pretty well informed. 

We've already established in this thread that its ok to run certain red lights (like at the top of a T intersection, i.e. Milwaukee/Elston or Milwaukee/Noble), so most of us knowingly break the law, or believe in our own judgement as to which red lights are 'ok' to run and which aren't.

I don't come to a complete stop at every stop sign and put my foot on the ground and I'm assuming you don't either. We are living in the grey area of illegal actions that are not enforced (albieit not designed for bikes either), I'm just in a different position in the area of grey than you and I'm willing to state my position. God forbid there be some dissent in bike land.

Am I wrong for choosing to ride how I want and not the way you want me to ride? None of us ride to the letter of the law, so why is it that what you believe is ok for you but what I believe is not ok for me?


igz said:

the arrogance is strong with this one...

MFrank said:

I run red lights down Milwaukee in my commute. This is me not feeling bad.

I don't live my life by your rules, you don't have to live by mine.

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