Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Josh L. on August 5, 2013 at 4:32pm

I know that building and go there fairly often.  They have warned me about doing what you did...locked it to that same railing.  And yes, there are few racks around there and the gate seems a perfect place to lock up.

I do find it something of a nasty policy and unnecessary. That being said, it's their building and I guess free to do what they want. The railing next to the river makes you think it is public property..but it ain't. Glad they couldn't cut your lock.

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Permalink Reply by Mike M on August 5, 2013 at 4:48pm

Agreed. I'm not questioning whether they are within their powers to remove a locked bike from their property, just wondering why they see it as necessary and why they wouldn't add a sign asking cyclists not to lock up there. It seems like a very unneighborly way of handling things. I mostly just want to make sure nobody loses their stuff by locking up here.

jolondon30 said:

I know that building and go there fairly often.  They have warned me about doing what you did...locked it to that same railing.  And yes, there are few racks around there and the gate seems a perfect place to lock up.

I do find it something of a nasty policy and unnecessary. That being said, it's their building and I guess free to do what they want. The railing next to the river makes you think it is public property..but it ain't. Glad they couldn't cut your lock.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Dworzanski on August 5, 2013 at 6:00pm

A sign would be much more effective than surprising people with a missing bike. I know you said you don't think it was an attempt to steal your bike but if you think about it, it's a really good cover to be taking people's bikes. It's hard to understand why anyone would care unless the bike is really in the way.

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Permalink Reply by Josh L. on August 6, 2013 at 12:35am

They aren't trying to steal bikes. They have talked to me several times. It's a policy thing..the guards are under instructions to keep the outside area clean/neat.  It's a high end bldg. with a lot of big law firms, etc.

I agree with both of you that signs would be a better way to handle it. They have been only pleasant with me, I must say.
Tom said:

A sign would be much more effective than surprising people with a missing bike. I know you said you don't think it was an attempt to steal your bike but if you think about it, it's a really good cover to be taking people's bikes. It's hard to understand why anyone would care unless the bike is really in the way.

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Permalink Reply by Julie Aberman (Hochstadter) on August 6, 2013 at 2:22am

where is the sign that says you can't park there?  

Happened to me and my bike lock was sawed off at the Aon Building.  Got my bike back but I was not happy.  No signs at all saying  DO NOT PARK YOUR BIKE HERE.  I called it " Another Lock Bites The Dust"

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Permalink Reply by Brendan Kevenides on August 6, 2013 at 4:01am

I had a chance to look into this issue for a messenger who had his bike removed by a building owner or manager after he locked up to a place he probably shouldn't have.  (He admitted that there was don't lock up here sign.)  Unfortunately, when the lock was cut, his bike's steel frame was also badly damaged.  He asked me about his rights.  We did some research.  We found that the law isn't very clear.  There is a statute in the IL Vehicle Code that details how property owners may deal with motor vehicles parked illegally on their property, but nothing pertaining explicitly to bikes.  A portion of Chicago's municipal code deals with abandoned bikes, but that is a different situation.  This is an issue that should be addressed by the City.  There should be an ordinance that tells property owners just what they may and may not do when dealing with an unwanted bicycle on their property.

A property owner certainly may have an unwanted bike, or anything else that disturbs their enjoyment of their property, removed.  But how may that be accomplished?  Certainly they may call the police, who could issue a ticket to the offending bicyclist.  Of course, if the bike remains there for a long time to the point where it may officially be deemed "abandoned", the City may come and remove it.  But may a land owner just remove the bike and toss it, or damage it?  I don't think so.  But more clarity from the City would be appreciated.

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Permalink Reply by Eli on August 6, 2013 at 4:03am

I got a warning notice stuck to my bike for locking up to the dock ramp railing at DuSable Harbor. (The bike was outside of the ramp and not obstructing it, or the dock, in any way.) Slightly frustrating since (a) there was no sign prohibiting this and (b) you can go to Montrose or Belmont Harbors, also owned by the city and managed by Westrec and in theory subject to the same policies, any day of the week and see many bikes locked to dock ramp railings and no one ever gets warnings at those harbors. But I certainly appreciated getting a warning rather than having my lock cut.

I don't understand why these downtown buildings immediately resort to cutting locks, or having security guards verbally warn you if they happen to see you. Just put a note on the bike with a warning. I can't imagine many people would chance locking their bikes up again after receiving such a note.

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Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on August 6, 2013 at 4:18am

Brendan,

Gut reaction:  some kind of trespassing law?  I would not expect to find it in the Vehicle Code.  Might not be statutory at all, but common law trespass issue.
 
Brendan Kevenides said:

I had a chance to look into this issue for a messenger who had his bike removed by a building owner or manager after he locked up to a place he probably shouldn't have.  (He admitted that there was don't lock up here sign.)  Unfortunately, when the lock was cut, his bike's steel frame was also badly damaged.  He asked me about his rights.  We did some research.  We found that the law isn't very clear.  There is a statute in the IL Vehicle Code that details how property owners may deal with motor vehicles parked illegally on their property, but nothing pertaining explicitly to bikes.  A portion of Chicago's municipal code deals with abandoned bikes, but that is a different situation.  This is an issue that should be addressed by the City.  There should be an ordinance that tells property owners just what they may and may not do when dealing with an unwanted bicycle on their property.

A property owner certainly may have an unwanted bike, or anything else that disturbs their enjoyment of their property, removed.  But how may that be accomplished?  Certainly they may call the police, who could issue a ticket to the offending bicyclist.  Of course, if the bike remains there for a long time to the point where it may officially be deemed "abandoned", the City may come and remove it.  But may a land owner just remove the bike and toss it, or damage it?  I don't think so.  But more clarity from the City would be appreciated.

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Permalink Reply by Brendan Kevenides on August 6, 2013 at 4:35am

Right.  I looked there too.  Clearly, you'd be trespassing by locking your bike (or anything else) onto someone else's property.  But what may the landowner do about it?  Call a cop?  File for injunctive relief? Yes and yes.  But damage or destroy the bike?  I don't know.  My guess is no, but it isn't entirely clear.

Lisa Curcio 6.5 mi said:

Brendan,

Gut reaction:  some kind of trespassing law?  I would not expect to find it in the Vehicle Code.  Might not be statutory at all, but common law trespass issue.
 
Brendan Kevenides said:

I had a chance to look into this issue for a messenger who had his bike removed by a building owner or manager after he locked up to a place he probably shouldn't have.  (He admitted that there was don't lock up here sign.)  Unfortunately, when the lock was cut, his bike's steel frame was also badly damaged.  He asked me about his rights.  We did some research.  We found that the law isn't very clear.  There is a statute in the IL Vehicle Code that details how property owners may deal with motor vehicles parked illegally on their property, but nothing pertaining explicitly to bikes.  A portion of Chicago's municipal code deals with abandoned bikes, but that is a different situation.  This is an issue that should be addressed by the City.  There should be an ordinance that tells property owners just what they may and may not do when dealing with an unwanted bicycle on their property.

A property owner certainly may have an unwanted bike, or anything else that disturbs their enjoyment of their property, removed.  But how may that be accomplished?  Certainly they may call the police, who could issue a ticket to the offending bicyclist.  Of course, if the bike remains there for a long time to the point where it may officially be deemed "abandoned", the City may come and remove it.  But may a land owner just remove the bike and toss it, or damage it?  I don't think so.  But more clarity from the City would be appreciated.

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Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on August 6, 2013 at 4:55am

The Criminal Trespass to Real Property (720 ILCS 5/21-3) statute does not address it, and it would seem that on private property open to the public a sign should be placed even if the statute could be construed to apply.  In any event, self-help is, as you know, generally frowned upon and calling police would be the appropriate remedy.  Of course, a property owner calling the police to report a bicycle locked to a rail on his or her property is likely to get the same response as reporting a bicycle theft! :-)
 
Brendan Kevenides said:

Right.  I looked there too.  Clearly, you'd be trespassing by locking your bike (or anything else) onto someone else's property.  But what may the landowner do about it?  Call a cop?  File for injunctive relief? Yes and yes.  But damage or destroy the bike?  I don't know.  My guess is no, but it isn't entirely clear.

Lisa Curcio 6.5 mi said:

Brendan,

Gut reaction:  some kind of trespassing law?  I would not expect to find it in the Vehicle Code.  Might not be statutory at all, but common law trespass issue.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on August 6, 2013 at 5:01am

And I'm guessing the degree of care owed to a trespasser by the property owner exercising self-help is extremely low, and even lower if "no trespassing" is posted.

Lisa Curcio 6.5 mi said:

The Criminal Trespass to Real Property (720 ILCS 5/21-3) statute does not address it, and it would seem that on private property open to the public a sign should be placed even if the statute could be construed to apply.  In any event, self-help is, as you know, generally frowned upon and calling police would be the appropriate remedy.  Of course, a property owner calling the police to report a bicycle locked to a rail on his or her property is likely to get the same response as reporting a bicycle theft! :-)
 
Brendan Kevenides said:

Right.  I looked there too.  Clearly, you'd be trespassing by locking your bike (or anything else) onto someone else's property.  But what may the landowner do about it?  Call a cop?  File for injunctive relief? Yes and yes.  But damage or destroy the bike?  I don't know.  My guess is no, but it isn't entirely clear.

Lisa Curcio 6.5 mi said:

Brendan,

Gut reaction:  some kind of trespassing law?  I would not expect to find it in the Vehicle Code.  Might not be statutory at all, but common law trespass issue.

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Permalink Reply by Skip Montanaro 0mi on August 6, 2013 at 5:02am

Better, since it would prevent the later call to the police by the bike owner!

Lisa Curcio 6.5 mi said:

Of course, a property owner calling the police to report a bicycle locked to a rail on his or her property is likely to get the same response as reporting a bicycle theft! :-)

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