Metal or Plastic Fenders for Touring/Commuting?

I have been fender shopping and going crazy.  One day I want hammered Velo Orange metal fenders and the next day I want SKS Plastic Longboards. I have read many of the blogs. Some say metal keeps you drier, but others say metal dents and bends and is a mess when you are locking your bike or banging it around in a storage box for transportation etc.

So Plastic or metal that is the question?

Dave

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1zt7hr8qm0y90Permalink Reply by 1zt7hr8qm0y90 on January 28, 2013 at 3:57pm
I was going to bring up the subject of fenders but I thought I'd be laughed off the forum. Get yourself (hold on to your hat) a department store 7 speed (are you ready for this) Huffy cruiser, especially one thats 10 years old and looks new. Nobody will steal it and you will ride faster than I will but I will get there. As far as busses are concerened my fenders are so conforming that I broke a spoke and the clearance was so close that a portion of the tire rubbed against the tire and scored it so it won't have enough room with or without a fender support bracket.
Bicycles forever.
Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 28, 2013 at 4:16pm
http://ass-savers.com. Might be a good compromise. Cheap, lightweight, and easily remove able for the bus etc....
1zt7hr8qm0y90Permalink Reply by 1zt7hr8qm0y90 on January 28, 2013 at 4:40pm
What's all this talk about bike rack, Metra, CTA abuse, ie damage. Be careful, bring rags, lock your bike so it tilts away from instead of towards the bike rack. People were impressed when my boom box is 30 years old and the antenna wasn't broken. They break theirs almost overnight. When I got my first bike, a 26 inch Sears J.C. Higgins at age 7 my father told me that this is the only bike he would ever buy me and to never let anyone else ride it. That was in 1958. I scrapped it in 2011, still ridable but I wanted a bike that has multiple gears and factory accomodations for water bottle cradle and frame pump. Take care of your bike fanatically.
Permalink Reply by djm on January 28, 2013 at 4:55pm

The problem isnt how I take care of my bike but how others do.  Last time I had my road bike on Metra, someone slid their brake lever along my top tube when they stored their bike.  :-(

Douglas Iverson said:

What's all this talk about bike rack, Metra, CTA abuse, ie damage. Be careful, bring rags, lock your bike so it tilts away from instead of towards the bike rack. People were impressed when my boom box is 30 years old and the antenna wasn't broken. They break theirs almost overnight. When I got my first bike, a 26 inch Sears J.C. Higgins at age 7 my father told me that this is the only bike he would ever buy me and to never let anyone else ride it. That was in 1958. I scrapped it in 2011, still ridable but I wanted a bike that has multiple gears and factory accomodations for water bottle cradle and frame pump. Take care of your bike fanatically.
Permalink Reply by Lanterne Rouge on January 28, 2013 at 5:24pm

Those are Velo Orange, of the smooth variety. And they're now on my NEW 1973 Schwinn World Voyageur. Just as slick, I promise :D


Duppie 13.5185km said:

Jim, I remember that the ones on your green Schwinn look great. What brand are they?


Jim S said:

These are very nice, albeit pricey. The thing about the Berthoud fenders that scared me off was that I would have to drill my own hardware. Though, I have heard that they are coming pre-drilled now. 


william said:

berthouds. 

Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on January 29, 2013 at 3:52am

Pics!

Jim S said:

Those are Velo Orange, of the smooth variety. And they're now on my NEW 1973 Schwinn World Voyageur. Just as slick, I promise :D


Duppie 13.5185km said:

Jim, I remember that the ones on your green Schwinn look great. What brand are they?


Jim S said:

These are very nice, albeit pricey. The thing about the Berthoud fenders that scared me off was that I would have to drill my own hardware. Though, I have heard that they are coming pre-drilled now. 


william said:

berthouds. 

Permalink Reply by Duppie on February 3, 2013 at 4:21am
Kevin, do you have these on your touring bike? The grey one with the hadnlebar bag?

Kevin C 4.1 mi said:

No chainlink love for the Planet Bike Cascadia Fenders? I have them on two bikes. Easy to install. Full coverage. No complaints.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on September 14, 2014 at 9:58am

I've heard Jan Heine talk about the effect of these side channels but I feel he is over-blowing their effectiveness in his holy velo-fatwa against plastic fenders.  

When a wheel is moving inside even a dry fender it is producing a pretty decent wind-tunnel effect, which will efficiently and effectively push along any water present around the inner diameter of the fender towards the front, if its course is not disrupted.  Any water flinging off of the tire will also shoot outwards on a tangent from the spinning tire and strike the inside of the fender and be warped back by the fender in the direction the wheel is spinning towards the front.  The middle of the fender is further from the axle than the sides, so water moving with the wheel will want to channel naturally via centripetal force into the larger radius of the middle of the fender and away from the sides until it emerges at the front of the fender to be spat out in a straight line on a tangent to the diameter of the fender (Newtons laws of motion.) 

The problems with the SKS fender, and many other plastic fenders like it, are not the lack of the "ridge" at the sides but the fact that the metal fasteners for the stays are mounted on the inside of the fender, where they will cause the smooth flow of water around the fender to be disrupted and cause turbulence in the stream.  When the water flowing around the fender strikes these metal obstructions it will splash and spray in all directions instead of continuing to flow around the fender smoothly.  One of these directions is right out the sides of the fender to drip onto the stays and/or jump into the airstream of the bike.  From there it is "blown" right back out on the rider and the bike itself. 

Not good.

The only real solution to this is to drill out the rivets holding these brackets and to move the mounts to the outside of the fender instead.  I've done this on my front fender and it makes a huge difference.  Water no longer leaks or sprays out the sides of the fender and instead keeps traveling along the length of the fender until it is ejected efficiently out the front towards the ground where it belongs.

This brings us to the next problem with SKS and other plastic fenders.  They do not have the same rigidity as metal fenders and thus the makers of these fenders do not make them protrude far enough forward to keep the terminal spray from shooting upwards and back into the airstream of the bike, to come right back at it and the rider once it is caught and spread out by the wind.  A front fender should cover around at least to the top of the tire and continue onwards a few more inches so that the water is ejected in a generally downward direction where it has a chance of making it out of the way of most of the bike and the rider as it catches up with it.  Metal fenders often are mounted to the front rack which is installed low and close to the wheel to keep the center of gravity of any load such as a handlebar bag as low as possible, and to also mount the forward portion of the fender so it can extend out and downward even a little bit more.   But even without a rack a metal fender is still rigid enough to protrude much further than a plastic one. 

The SKS longboards, and their chromoplastic cousins have a very short front fender IMHO.  If the fender is mounted in front of the fork crown it works a tiny bit better for pushing the water downwards or at least not upwards as it exits the fender, but then it is way too high on the back so spray hits the bottom bracket, cranks, and the downtube even with a mud flap installed.  If the mount is installed at the back of the fork crown it is a little better at the back, but it still a little too high to do an effective job -flap or no.  The bottom of the mud flap should be about 4" or so off the ground to really do its job and keep most of the spray from the back of the front wheel away from the BB and the rider's feet on the pedals and cranks. 

My solution was to use a rear SKS fender on the front wheel, which is much longer.  I mounted it to my front rack in the "rando" style of the French Constructeurs as well as to the front of the fork crown.  This still left enough length to get it low enough in the back to reach down so that with the flexible SKS optional mud flap extends to about 4" from the ground.  I had to cut a little bit off of the front of the rear fender because it is shaped to go into the chainstay area of the rear wheel and also miss the chain.  It isn't shaped like a front fender.   It was pretty simple to cut it with a hacksaw and to file into the same shape as a regular front fender though.  

These modifications make my hacked plastic SKS fender work just as well as a metal fender with the "ridges" on the side.  The ridges are really only there to make a metal fender stiffer,  adding "rigidity," so to speak.  Having a longer fender without any obstructions on the inside is what is really important, I have found, with my experiment with a rear SKS fender on the front.  Relocating the brackets to the exterior of the fender made the water flow smoothly without spraying out the sides at all.

While I was at it, i also used the electrically insulated internal metal structure of the SKS fender as a conductor for one of the wires from my dynohub as well.  But that's another story...


Andy Moss 9.5 said:

The advantage that a good pair of metal fenders offers over plastic are the little channels along the edges which carry water and thinner muck to the bottom of the fender, rather than dropping it back on your wheels and creating more spray.  Cheaper metal fenders often lack them.  That said, I don't think it's that big of a deal, especially if you have the frame clearance to use wider fenders.  In heavy rain, you're going to get wet.

I think the SKS longboards are excellent.  They have great coverage and built-in mud flaps, they are easy to install, they are tough, and if, by some reason, they crack, some duct tape will bail you out.  You can also find them for less than $50.

Permalink Reply by Scott Chillson on September 14, 2014 at 2:36pm

Metal is pretty, but heavy and prone to denting. Cheap plastic becomes brittle after many miles and breaks. The best fenders in my experience are the SKSs because not only are they durable, but in a crash they pop out of their bracket, like Ron Gurth mentioned. Right now I have Planet Bike's on my touring bike. They were easier to install and cheaper than the SKS. After 2 years with them I have no cracks or issues (though the SKS lasted 5 winters, even with several collisions) 

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on September 14, 2014 at 3:01pm

The issue I have with the Planet Bike fenders is they only have the one set of stays in the front, and lack the quick-release fastener at the dropout bolt.  

If you have any toe-overlap issue at all on your bike and tend to kick or even bump the front fender with your toe from time to time that lack of the extra stay may begin to cause problems.  I found this out the had way with my wife's bike that I had put the PB fenders on instead of the SKS's. Eventually the fender got a kink in it from the repeated toe-kicking and it folded up against the tire.  Because of the lack of the quick-release fitting the fender folded up against the fork crown.  Luckily it happened at a slow speed and she didn't crash -just came to a very quick stop.

She has SKS P45's on her bike now. 

I put the quick-release safety fastener on the rear fender as well.  You can buy them on Amazon or from Rivendell.  I've had both of them, front and rear, pop on me on seperate occasions this year after some bad storms put a lot of sticks on the paths.  The rear popped just a couple of weeks ago.  They work. Popping the fender back in is a 5-second job. 

As for the running of the power through the fender, I think like an electrician.  I've been one for nearly 25 years.  I warps the way I think perhaps. I see that nice electrically-insulated stay and start thinking...

Permalink Reply by Jaik S. on September 15, 2014 at 2:26am

I've got a set of the Berthoud's on my Long Haul Trucker. When I ordered them from Peter White, I was nervous about them not being drilled or not fitting. I have the 700c x 50mm and they work perfect for my 38mm tires. I did end up having to make an extra bracket for them because I didn't want them bouncing as much. That bracket lasted just over a year and finally snapped on the Bike & Chow ride about twenty miles in. After I got home, I made another bracket with some thicker plate stainless steel, and folded it over so it's doubled. Here's a photo of the bracket.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on September 15, 2014 at 3:33am

A trick I have found that sometimes helps for custom fabricating and mounting fenders is to use cardboard as a shim between the tire and the fender to get the fenderline exactly where you want it before any mounts are made.   Use whatever number of layers of the cardboard you have on hand to get the thickness you need as tire clearance.  Cut strips of cardboard from a shipping box to be laid over the bias of your tire to shim the fender up and support it every so-many inches around the diameter of the tire.  How many spots you need to shim depends on the fender material -you'll need more locations on floppy plastic fenders and can get away with just 3 or so on a steel fender at/near your fender-mounting points.

Loosely wrap some masking tape around the fender and rim to make it just firm enough to keep the fender from moving around as you make your marks for holes and measuring your stays.  This way you don't need all the many arms of Shiva to work and measure while holding the fender with the others.  

Laying a bit of masking tape on the fender itself to help you mark with a sharpie where a hole is needs to be drilled is a good idea too.  You can find the mark easily later and not put any stray marks on a plastic fender. It's almost impossible to make marks on a steel fender that you can find again and you don't want to make a mistake and drill in the wrong spot or even a few mm off.  Using tape will show you exactly where your hole needs to be drilled when you have it on  your workbench.

Take your time and be prepared to remove the fender and wheel a few times as you go along, especially if you have not done this before.  Don't try and drill through the fender while still temporarily mounted on the bike. Take it out of the frame and away from the tire (d'oh!) so you can drill it cleanly and straight-on on your workbench without putting a long curling ugly drill-scratch on the surface away from where you wanted your hole.  It's almost impossible to get a drill lined up and perpendicular to the fender while still in the frame.  If you try and drill from the inside out you are just guessing where it needs to be.  Guessing does not yield perfect results.  

Aim small, miss small. 

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