Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Will on December 13, 2012 at 10:35am

I have an SRAM 3-speed hub, and it's been great. Flawless, actually. No issues in cold weather. I know no one asked, I'm just saying.

Also, I would tend to trust Doug's advice on this.

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Permalink Reply by Casey Carnes on December 13, 2012 at 10:38am

It might spin more freely if you lift up the rear tire and give it a spin, but the difference while riding isn't noticable.  I was expecting to see a difference, but alas, my average speed has stayed exactly the same after the oil bath.

Dan Allison said:

no, not a specific problem, just various members of bikeforums making statements such as the following that got me thinking that maybe i should do an oil bath with my Alfine hub:

"Alfine becomes much more free-spinning after an oil dip. I didn't remove the grease, just dip, drain and refit."

 

Shimano recommends an oil bath treatment after the first 1,000 or so miles - after that the thing is a-ok"

 

 

 

 

 

 

notoriousDUG said:

What problems are the people who have made the switch saying the lube change helped with?  Was there an actual operational problem with them or are they just claiming it works 'better' now?  Be very, very skeptical when people claim a benefit but cannot give a clear case of an actual problem being solved or having solid data that there is an improvement.  I cannot imagine that a lube switch would make enough of a difference that you could notice it. 

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Permalink Reply by Dan Allison on December 13, 2012 at 10:52am

See, that's the thing, I've probably got about 4,000 - 5,000 miles on my Alfine by now and it doesn't seem as smooth as it did when it was new. It still works fine, shifts fine, etc., but it just doesn't "feel" right, you know what i mean? Something feels loose, or not quite tight enough..... hard to describe.... could also be the EBB (which is another mysterious beast to me).

Since Rapid Transit is convenient for me, maybe the best course is to take the bike in and let Doug take a look at it to see if he can deduce what I'm feeling.

Casey Carnes said:

It is a good idea to do a re-lube every so often (I do 2-3k miles). There have been many reports of alfine 8s coming with a less than ideal amount of grease.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on December 13, 2012 at 12:51pm

Now that is a whole different story.  There is a chance that a repack and lube bath could help but also be prepared for the possibility that it is going to be unhappy on the inside.  Stop by Sundays through Wednesday and I can take a look at it for you.

Dan Allison said:

See, that's the thing, I've probably got about 4,000 - 5,000 miles on my Alfine by now and it doesn't seem as smooth as it did when it was new. It still works fine, shifts fine, etc., but it just doesn't "feel" right, you know what i mean? Something feels loose, or not quite tight enough..... hard to describe.... could also be the EBB (which is another mysterious beast to me).

Since Rapid Transit is convenient for me, maybe the best course is to take the bike in and let Doug take a look at it to see if he can deduce what I'm feeling.

Casey Carnes said:

It is a good idea to do a re-lube every so often (I do 2-3k miles). There have been many reports of alfine 8s coming with a less than ideal amount of grease.

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Permalink Reply by kevin womac on December 14, 2012 at 4:00am

I like Doug's last reply. a shimano hub that hasn't seen maintenance soon enough is often cashed. Shimano doesn't make the individual pieces readily available for the alfines and nexus hubs. The bearing surfaces, esp on the drive side wear quite quickly. the factory grease on the bearings is not sufficient for year round riding in my opinion. The lubrication of the gear mechanisms is usually fine. The oil bath shimano recommends is convenient (we have a set-up). but really the old grease needs to be removed first to really accomplish something, and that''s not easy. Shimano hubs don't come apart all that much (which also makes the bath convenient). I really like the simplicity of Sturmey Archer hubs. I've got a 1956 3spd that has been kicking it fine for me for the last twelve years. Low medium high. That's all you need.

Another issue with IGH bikes is their continuous housing runs. Lots of opportunity for added friction. It's hard to get oil into the cable housing for smooth operation/shifting. Often times a new cable oiled up nicely is all it takes to improve functionality.

You can stop by Boulevard Bikes if you want me to take a look at the hub too.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on December 14, 2012 at 5:42am

I question if the shimano hubs are sealed well enough for winter riding; not just the lubrication.  I have seen two of them where the drive side of the shell had the bearing race rust out to the point the hub was ruined; have you seen this at all?

kevin womac said:

I like Doug's last reply. a shimano hub that hasn't seen maintenance soon enough is often cashed. Shimano doesn't make the individual pieces readily available for the alfines and nexus hubs. The bearing surfaces, esp on the drive side wear quite quickly. the factory grease on the bearings is not sufficient for year round riding in my opinion. The lubrication of the gear mechanisms is usually fine. The oil bath shimano recommends is convenient (we have a set-up). but really the old grease needs to be removed first to really accomplish something, and that''s not easy. Shimano hubs don't come apart all that much (which also makes the bath convenient). I really like the simplicity of Sturmey Archer hubs. I've got a 1956 3spd that has been kicking it fine for me for the last twelve years. Low medium high. That's all you need.

Another issue with IGH bikes is their continuous housing runs. Lots of opportunity for added friction. It's hard to get oil into the cable housing for smooth operation/shifting. Often times a new cable oiled up nicely is all it takes to improve functionality.

You can stop by Boulevard Bikes if you want me to take a look at the hub too.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on December 14, 2012 at 5:42am

Nothing long term but none of the blow up in a month of riding issues I have experienced with the 5 speed.

Cameron Puetz said:

Any experience with the Sturmey 5 speeds?

notoriousDUG said:

Sturmey 3 speeds old and new are very durable baring the coaster break version.  Same for modern Shimano 3 speeds.  More gears can often equal more problems.  I am not a fan of the Sturmey 8 but the Shimano 7 and 8 speeds seem to be pretty trouble free.

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Permalink Reply by Dan Allison on December 14, 2012 at 6:48am

Will do, likely sometime after the holidays. Thanks again for all your help.

notoriousDUG said:

Stop by Sundays through Wednesday and I can take a look at it for you.

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Permalink Reply by kevin womac on December 14, 2012 at 7:56am

We've sold about fifty or sixty SA 5 speed hubs (on Pashley's and Torkers). two of them have had trouble, and in both cases the shift cable was reattached incorrectly by other shops changing flats. When the cable is out of adjustment, the clutch and drivers are out of position, leading to trouble and wear (shimano hubs are a little more forgiving of misadjustments). Other than that, I think they rock! the shifter can be used as a thumb shifter, or a downtube shifter, or even a barend shifter- which creates my favorite style of bike- the 5speed dropbar commuter. We have a Handsome Cycles built up this way right now.

Cameron Puetz said:

Any experience with the Sturmey 5 speeds?

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Permalink Reply by kevin womac on December 14, 2012 at 8:16am

Yeah, that's the cashed bit I was talking about. I've heard that Aaron's Bikeshop in Seattle overhauls every nexus before they sell it because of this. The bearing race/cup rusts out, the balls are tiny and rust up too, and the 'cone' goes bad. two of the three are replaceabe.

I'm a little confused about your 5 speed comment Doug. Have you had trouble?

notoriousDUG said:

I question if the shimano hubs are sealed well enough for winter riding; not just the lubrication.  I have seen two of them where the drive side of the shell had the bearing race rust out to the point the hub was ruined; have you seen this at all?

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on December 14, 2012 at 12:07pm

I have not really seen problems with the 5 speed other than a one that was killed by the owner getting the adjustment wrong.  But I have not seen that many of them compared to other hubs.

Are they using a different grease when they overhaul them?  It seems like the issue is the grease washing out and letting the hub shell and bearings rust.  

kevin womac said:

Yeah, that's the cashed bit I was talking about. I've heard that Aaron's Bikeshop in Seattle overhauls every nexus before they sell it because of this. The bearing race/cup rusts out, the balls are tiny and rust up too, and the 'cone' goes bad. two of the three are replaceabe.

I'm a little confused about your 5 speed comment Doug. Have you had trouble?

notoriousDUG said:

I question if the shimano hubs are sealed well enough for winter riding; not just the lubrication.  I have seen two of them where the drive side of the shell had the bearing race rust out to the point the hub was ruined; have you seen this at all?

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Permalink Reply by Mike Bullis 5.5-6.5 miles on December 14, 2012 at 1:59pm

My kind of thread.:) Most all my bikes have geared hubs.

I have experience with older SA 5 speeds, the S5 series. Simple hub and works very well if you ditch the original shifter(s) and go with a standard SA shifter for the right side and a friction shifter for the left. Know nothing about the single shifter 5 speeds.

I did convert my Sram S7 to oil lube after condensation formed in the hub(unheated garage) and rusted the thrust key to the axle and fucked up the shifting. I found absolutely no grease in the center of the axle. Freed that up, drilled a hole in the shell and threaded it for a SA oiler. Couple drops of oil when I think about it and no issues for the last two years.

Plan on doing the oil conversion to the Alfine sometime in the future. Just decided not to commute this winter.

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