Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on September 5, 2012 at 9:42am

If the mayor and his minions were serious about bicycle infrastructure they'd close the road to CARS and leave the bike lane OPEN.

But, as we all know, he's not.

This only drives home the point of exactly where their priorities lie. 

Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on September 5, 2012 at 9:50am

Maybe the city could institute this plan to defray the costs of keeping Elston clean:

http://bikeyface.com/2012/09/04/a-sign/

Permalink Reply by Bill Savage on September 6, 2012 at 5:28am

Here's the irony: lots of the broken glass on regular streets gets picked up by . . . car tires.  They don't get flats as easily, and little sharp shards that will destroy a bike's skinny tire, perhaps puncture a hybrid, and maybe a fat tire, are taken away by our friends driving cars.  When dedicated bike lanes are created, that broken glass just stays there  because no cars are driving over the glass and unintentionally taking it away.  There is no culture of sweeping a street in front of your business here (unlike in Germany or the UK and Ireland) and most of our dedicated lanes are on industrial streets where many hundreds of yards, or whole blocks and more, are the property of car dealers or factories, and they have no walk-up customers to worry about.  Regular streets, where cars share the whole width of the road with bikes, will therefore always have less broken glass to worry about (note how often we get flats when pulling over near the curb at lights, where glass accumulates because so few cars would go over that particular spot, and just how much more glass there is in the gutter along the sidewalk than there is out in the main lanes of traffic).

Also, whatever accommodations the city might have made for snowplows that will fit down these lanes, those giant street-sweepers that periodically clean regular city streets cannot touch these lanes.  Another thing that will make them full of broken glass.

So, give me Racine or Damen or Clybourne or Halsted, and good luck keeping those dedicated lanes glass-free.  Perhaps Critical Massers could do a sweep night one time?  Go to each of these lanes, dismount, sweep up all the debris? 

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on September 6, 2012 at 5:45am

The same auto tire sweeping effect you identify with respect to broken glass and debris also occurs with respect to snow and other wintry precipitation. Kinzie street east of Des Plaines remains free of ice and snow much longer than the same stretch of the Kinzie protected bike lane in the winter.  

Bill Savage said:

Here's the irony: lots of the broken glass on regular streets gets picked up by . . . car tires.  They don't get flats as easily, and little sharp shards that will destroy a bike's skinny tire, perhaps puncture a hybrid, and maybe a fat tire, are taken away by our friends driving cars.  When dedicated bike lanes are created, that broken glass just stays there  because no cars are driving over the glass and unintentionally taking it away.  There is no culture of sweeping a street in front of your business here (unlike in Germany or the UK and Ireland) and most of our dedicated lanes are on industrial streets where many hundreds of yards, or whole blocks and more, are the property of car dealers or factories, and they have no walk-up customers to worry about.  Regular streets, where cars share the whole width of the road with bikes, will therefore always have less broken glass to worry about (note how often we get flats when pulling over near the curb at lights, where glass accumulates because so few cars would go over that particular spot, and just how much more glass there is in the gutter along the sidewalk than there is out in the main lanes of traffic).

Also, whatever accommodations the city might have made for snowplows that will fit down these lanes, those giant street-sweepers that periodically clean regular city streets cannot touch these lanes.  Another thing that will make them full of broken glass.

So, give me Racine or Damen or Clybourne or Halsted, and good luck keeping those dedicated lanes glass-free.  Perhaps Critical Massers could do a sweep night one time?  Go to each of these lanes, dismount, sweep up all the debris? 

Permalink Reply by Brian on September 6, 2012 at 11:16am

Has anyone heard a plan for sweeping the protected bike lanes, other than they have one or two donated sweepers for the whole city? I ride Elson every day, and I'm having serious doubts about the protected bike lane initiative. Lots of glass, debris and flat tires. No action on sweeping...on what was a great street to ride on. Used to be you'd see the street sweeper every morning...and I never had a flat before on that stretch. I'm curious if they can space the pylons way farther apart so they can swoop in to sweep most of it at least? Does anyone else want the city to put the brakes on protected lanes? I'm having a hard time envisioning how they'll sweep the snow to the side during the winter too. 

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on September 6, 2012 at 1:06pm

I am not a fan of protected bike lanes, but I'm not yet an active opponent.

Brian said:

Has anyone heard a plan for sweeping the protected bike lanes, other than they have one or two donated sweepers for the whole city? I ride Elson every day, and I'm having serious doubts about the protected bike lane initiative. Lots of glass, debris and flat tires. No action on sweeping...on what was a great street to ride on. Used to be you'd see the street sweeper every morning...and I never had a flat before on that stretch. I'm curious if they can space the pylons way farther apart so they can swoop in to sweep most of it at least? Does anyone else want the city to put the brakes on protected lanes? I'm having a hard time envisioning how they'll sweep the snow to the side during the winter too. 

Permalink Reply by Brian on September 6, 2012 at 1:16pm

I'm not an active opponent yet either, but I would like to hear that someone has a plan for maintenance.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on September 6, 2012 at 1:17pm

I'm not 8 years old -nor am I 80.

I'm a strong rider who isn't afraid to mix it up with the cars.   Without bike lanes only a few strong riders will be brave enough to be out on the streets.  Is this what people want?  Bike lanes aren't necessary for ME to ride.  I don't NEED them. 

But like I said, I'm not 8 years old or even 80.       I'm closer to 80 than I am to 8, and getting closer yet every year.    Someday I probably WILL need these protected bike lanes.   And I won't be the only one. 

Count me in as  "not being an active opponent."

Kevin C said:

I am not a fan of protected bike lanes, but I'm not yet an active opponent.

Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on September 6, 2012 at 2:53pm

As many of you have heard me say before, I am new to this regular riding.  I am more confident than I was in May, but I have not caught up to most of you and don't know if I will.  I LOVE riding my bike.  The existence of at the very least marked lanes and, yes, protected lanes helped me get into regular riding.  

I look forward to riding most of the winter, but snow and ice in the bike lanes will keep me out of them.  In the winter, that means I need to find a route that I am comfortable with other than Milwaukee to Kinzie from Wicker Park to the loop.  There has been much lamentation about the condition of the protected lanes.  Is there anything we can DO?

Permalink Reply by Bill Savage on September 6, 2012 at 4:35pm

Volunteers to sweep them weekly or more often?

Lisa Curcio said:

As many of you have heard me say before, I am new to this regular riding.  I am more confident than I was in May, but I have not caught up to most of you and don't know if I will.  I LOVE riding my bike.  The existence of at the very least marked lanes and, yes, protected lanes helped me get into regular riding.  

I look forward to riding most of the winter, but snow and ice in the bike lanes will keep me out of them.  In the winter, that means I need to find a route that I am comfortable with other than Milwaukee to Kinzie from Wicker Park to the loop.  There has been much lamentation about the condition of the protected lanes.  Is there anything we can DO?

Permalink Reply by Bill Savage on September 6, 2012 at 5:05pm

Lisa

Depending on where exactly you start, you could just take Damen south, then cut eastbound at whatever loop street your destination is nearest to (some are one-way, of course).  Or Milwaukee to Halsted, Halsted south, then cut east.  It might be a longer ride than staying on Kinzie, but if avoiding the broken glass is your goal, the share-rows of Damen and/or Halsted might be preferable.  Lake Street is pretty good for eastbound traffic too. Wide, lots of room.

Bill

Lisa Curcio said:

As many of you have heard me say before, I am new to this regular riding.  I am more confident than I was in May, but I have not caught up to most of you and don't know if I will.  I LOVE riding my bike.  The existence of at the very least marked lanes and, yes, protected lanes helped me get into regular riding.  

I look forward to riding most of the winter, but snow and ice in the bike lanes will keep me out of them.  In the winter, that means I need to find a route that I am comfortable with other than Milwaukee to Kinzie from Wicker Park to the loop.  There has been much lamentation about the condition of the protected lanes.  Is there anything we can DO?

Permalink Reply by Ash L. on September 7, 2012 at 4:22am

I don't ride Milwaukee through Wicker Park at all. Too many dooring risks and idiots not paying attention; drivers, cyclists and peds alike. You should try taking Wood to Augusta to Noble to Hubbard a few times before the sloppy winter stuff starts. Wood has lights at every intersection but you don't want to take it all the way to Hubbard because Hubbard doesn't have any intersection control at Ashland. You can avoid the congestion of crossing Halsted at Hubbard by making a right onto Green and then connecting to Kinzie from there or whichever thoroughfare into the loop you plan to use. 

Lisa Curcio said:

I look forward to riding most of the winter, but snow and ice in the bike lanes will keep me out of them.  In the winter, that means I need to find a route that I am comfortable with other than Milwaukee to Kinzie from Wicker Park to the loop.  There has been much lamentation about the condition of the protected lanes.  Is there anything we can DO?

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