Clark Park Boathouse Discussion

Clark Park is a pristine river front park which contains acres of green space and a half mile river front trail, soccer fields, native gardens and a state-of-the-art BMX trail. Also, it has a public canoe/kayak launch and is a recognized butterfly sanctuary and bird watching habitat.


We oppose constructing a 2 acre sized boat warehouse/crewing facility which will negatively impact the park - it will be too large for Clark Park and introduce a 3 story building, surrounded by concrete, increased vehicle traffic, and will interrupt existing activities at the park. The public demands a period of public review to investigate moving the facility to a larger park or a different location.


A much smaller boathouse facility could be constructed at Clark Park, containing canoes/kayak, badly needed washrooms and a public water source, concessios and possible bike rental. Green Space is the most valuable resource in the parks, especially in this one-of-a-kind riverfront park - it must be protected for future generations.


http://www.change.org/petitions/chicago-park-district-and-the-city-... 


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Permalink Reply by Bill donahue on May 2, 2012 at 4:36pm

Tim, I realize that you are someone with a great deal of rowing experience, in Canada I believe,  but I have not been laughing at anything you have said.  I am simply trying to make sense of all the overbuilding in this small area.  Why would the City build a 9million dollar facility to store boats when it would never be used for Regattas? I promise you that even for a rowing novice such as myself, this is hard to believe?? Thats what we should do on this forum, is laugh at each others sincere arguments and beliefs, eh?

Permalink Reply by Tim S on May 2, 2012 at 4:54pm
What on earth does my nationality have to do with the price of tea in China? I am not a quasi professional rower just went to a University that had rowing as a varsity sport that I enjoyed watching from the shore. Only regattas I participate in are on sail boats out on the lake.

All the best to you but it seems that the boat house is the least of your worries based on all the development around there. If they are going to host a regatta all the power to them and I highly doubt it would be the size of your picture. Showing that is like showing a picture of the Tour de France rather than a North Side Critical Mass.
Permalink Reply by Bill donahue on May 2, 2012 at 5:27pm

"Based on all the development around there" is the point exactly.  There are too many things being added to an already saturated area, and the boathouse is the last mega project being proposed that we have any control over at all.  It is a certainty that it will take up 2 acres of the remaining 7 acres of undeveloped land, introduce many more vehicles into the park itself and surrounding area, and displace existing amenities of the park. Now, considering that this building is not what anyone we can find who has used the park recently has asked for or requested, we are suggesting that it be built elsewhere. I think that it is a very reasonable position, since there are numerous other locations which would work. Also, I will point out again, that a professional rower pointed out to me that this location is not ideal, since there is a blind corner south of the park, making this a dangerous starting point for boats.  Also, this narrow channel is a busy boating channel for power boats.

I was not suggesting anything about your nationality or the price of tea in China, I was talking about your rowing expertise gained at your university in Ontario, looks like a beautiful place.  It seemed from the photos posted on Trent University website, that the regatta was being held in the narrow chute similar to the north branch, but the practice space and probably the boathouse was located in the open lake -like areas, similar to the goose island turning basin? 

Here is another photo of a race ending.  Looks like these people had to park somewhere??  And this is only a portion of the boats which would be in a race.  The proposed boathouse at Clark Park would fit 50 of these boats.  Lets see, even if only the 50 boats inside the boathouse were used, thats 450 rowers, then there are coaches, spectators/fans, and everyone else. 

Permalink Reply by Carter O'Brien on May 3, 2012 at 2:29am

All good points, and don't forget this boathouse will permanently displace something the larger community and park users DO want and DID ask for, a bridge over the river!

Also note said bridge was to be a permanent piece of public infrastructure, not something only people who could afford to rent it could use.

Bill donahue said:

"Based on all the development around there" is the point exactly.  There are too many things being added to an already saturated area, and the boathouse is the last mega project being proposed that we have any control over at all.  It is a certainty that it will take up 2 acres of the remaining 7 acres of undeveloped land, introduce many more vehicles into the park itself and surrounding area, and displace existing amenities of the park. Now, considering that this building is not what anyone we can find who has used the park recently has asked for or requested, we are suggesting that it be built elsewhere. I think that it is a very reasonable position, since there are numerous other locations which would work. Also, I will point out again, that a professional rower pointed out to me that this location is not ideal, since there is a blind corner south of the park, making this a dangerous starting point for boats.  Also, this narrow channel is a busy boating channel for power boats.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on May 3, 2012 at 2:33am

Well this IS Chicago/Illnoise -I wouldn't be surprised if they were to set up toll booths on both sides...

So much for the whole "Bike Boulevards" concept.

Carter O'Brien said:

All good points, and don't forget this boathouse will permanently displace something the larger community and park users DO want and DID ask for, a bridge over the river!

Also note said bridge was to be a permanent piece of public infrastructure, not something only people who could afford to rent it could use.

Permalink Reply by Liz on May 3, 2012 at 3:02am

If the boathouse does hose a regatta it would be an annual event, not a daily hassle and much smaller in scale than you seem to think.  You would encounter more parking and traffic concerns from the soccer field and baseball fields on an almost daily basis, the boathouse would have little impact on the parking by comparison.  


While it does replace the bridge, I honestly don't see spending millions of dollars on a bridge as a good investment either.  That money could be used to install bike lanes on both the Belmont and Addison brides.  Roscoe ends so shortly after the river that a bike lane on the existing bridges would benefit many more people that a little bridge that would benefit only a few houndred people going between roscoe village and hot dougs. 

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on May 3, 2012 at 3:20am

The money was already ear-marked in a TIF.  Most likely it will not go towards other bike-infrastructure but back into the general fund. 

Game over.

That said, I'd like to see the Belmont bridge made into a 2-lane auto bridge with protected bike lanes -maybe both on the trail-head side, or something like that and a traffic light on the West end of the bridge that allows bikes to cross there safely rather than just being plowed-over by fast-moving traffic barreling over the bridge past this blind-spot at 45+ MPH as they top the crown of the bridge.  It's just not safe the way it is now.  There are no other safe crossings in this area.  That is why the bridge to link up the Roscoe Bike Boulevard on both sides of the river was planned in the FIRST place.

But oh, well.  Bikes come last in planning.  As always.


Liz said:

While it does replace the bridge, I honestly don't see spending millions of dollars on a bridge as a good investment either.  That money could be used to install bike lanes on both the Belmont and Addison brides.  Roscoe ends so shortly after the river that a bike lane on the existing bridges would benefit many more people that a little bridge that would benefit only a few houndred people going between roscoe village and hot dougs. 

Permalink Reply by Carter O'Brien on May 3, 2012 at 3:31am

A bridge, being permanent & not accessible by motor vehicles, will over time attract far more people to this park than the private boat house will, as well as provide a safe alternative to Belmont & Addison for those of us living west of the river. 

You're also assuming it's an either/or.  Bike lanes aren't that expensive, they're just paint.  But if your premise is the City is actually going to put bike lanes on either Belmont or Addison, I'd love to see some evidence, as to date all evidence is to the contrary.

I don't know what Belmont avenue some of you take, but I will tell you it is as far from a biker's utopian passage as is humanly possible on the north side, it gets a pitiful amount of bike traffic for good reason - the road condition here is terrible, between the jockeying for position thanks to the "rush hour parking controls," bunched up 77 buses and extra lanes over the river a cyclist is the last priority on any driver's mind.  And don't forget the Western overpass is slated for removal.


Liz said:

If the boathouse does hose a regatta it would be an annual event, not a daily hassle and much smaller in scale than you seem to think.  You would encounter more parking and traffic concerns from the soccer field and baseball fields on an almost daily basis, the boathouse would have little impact on the parking by comparison.  


While it does replace the bridge, I honestly don't see spending millions of dollars on a bridge as a good investment either.  That money could be used to install bike lanes on both the Belmont and Addison brides.  Roscoe ends so shortly after the river that a bike lane on the existing bridges would benefit many more people that a little bridge that would benefit only a few houndred people going between roscoe village and hot dougs. 

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on May 3, 2012 at 4:02am

I take the sidewalk over Belmont without the slightest bit of guilt.   The bike path dumps onto the sidewalk on the North and East side of the bridge anyhow with a nearly 12" drop-off curb at that point.  I don't know what else a rider coming off the path is supposed to do at this point -dismount, step off the curb, remount and then proceed Westbound?  Cross the bridge at this point 1/3rd of the way over the river and blind because of the crest of the bridge to Eastbound traffic?  I suppose it IS called the "RiverWALK" so that pretty much tells us where bikes fit into the planning of this clusterF@#% of permanent infrastructure.

Just take the sidewalk, and take it slow to be careful of peds and other bikes. 

Crossing again to go South on Rockwell, either through the intersection in vehicular mode and attempting to move to the center of the highway to turn left or utilizing the crosswalk coming off of the non-existent curb-cut  is taking your life into your own hands, because the motorists zooming by at 15-20MPH over the limit sure as hell don't care about it.

Carter O'Brien said:

I don't know what Belmont avenue some of you take, but I will tell you it is as far from a biker's utopian passage as is humanly possible on the north side, it gets a pitiful amount of bike traffic for good reason - the road condition here is terrible, between the jockeying for position thanks to the "rush hour parking controls," bunched up 77 buses and extra lanes over the river a cyclist is the last priority on any driver's mind.  And don't forget the Western overpass is slated for removal.


Liz said:

If the boathouse does hose a regatta it would be an annual event, not a daily hassle and much smaller in scale than you seem to think.  You would encounter more parking and traffic concerns from the soccer field and baseball fields on an almost daily basis, the boathouse would have little impact on the parking by comparison.  


While it does replace the bridge, I honestly don't see spending millions of dollars on a bridge as a good investment either.  That money could be used to install bike lanes on both the Belmont and Addison brides.  Roscoe ends so shortly after the river that a bike lane on the existing bridges would benefit many more people that a little bridge that would benefit only a few houndred people going between roscoe village and hot dougs. 

Permalink Reply by Carter O'Brien on May 3, 2012 at 4:17am

The sidewalk seems like a reasonable option when you're coming off of the riverwalk, but IMO it isn't a good option on a regular basis if you just need to cross river along Belmont. 

The sidewalks are astoundingly/inexplicably narrow, and there are bus stops that are heavily used during rush hour.  Non-rush hour it's really not that bad, but if the goal is to get more people cycling instead of driving to work (which it ought to be), the City has to deal with the crazy that is rush hour, not pretend that cyclists don't need to get work on time like everyone else.

Protected lanes might be a solution here, but I kinda doubt they'd work due to the peculiar dynamic which is the Northbound left turn lane on to Rockwell backing up with DeVry & Lane traffic, and the way the lights/right-turn only & bus lane is set up at Western & Clybourn.  Plus the bus stops. 

All I do know is $9m bucks for a private boathouse nobody asked for and nobody wants in an area with no space to spare is MADNESS.  That's really the bottom line here.  The NIMBY argument doesn't even apply, as it's not like the area is full of rowers, period - it's full of people who want to kayak and canoe.



James BlackHeron said:

I take the sidewalk over Belmont without the slightest bit of guilt.   The bike path dumps onto the sidewalk on the North and East side of the bridge anyhow with a nearly 12" drop-off curb at that point.  I don't know what else a rider coming off the path is supposed to do at this point -dismount, step off the curb, remount and then proceed Westbound?  Cross the bridge at this point 1/3rd of the way over the river and blind because of the crest of the bridge to Eastbound traffic?  I suppose it IS called the "RiverWALK" so that pretty much tells us where bikes fit into the planning of this clusterF@#% of permanent infrastructure.

Just take the sidewalk, and take it slow to be careful of peds and other bikes. 

Crossing again to go South on Rockwell, either through the intersection in vehicular mode and attempting to move to the center of the highway to turn left or utilizing the crosswalk coming off of the non-existent curb-cut  is taking your life into your own hands, because the motorists zooming by at 15-20MPH over the limit sure as hell don't care about it.

Carter O'Brien said:

I don't know what Belmont avenue some of you take, but I will tell you it is as far from a biker's utopian passage as is humanly possible on the north side, it gets a pitiful amount of bike traffic for good reason - the road condition here is terrible, between the jockeying for position thanks to the "rush hour parking controls," bunched up 77 buses and extra lanes over the river a cyclist is the last priority on any driver's mind.  And don't forget the Western overpass is slated for removal.


Liz said:

If the boathouse does hose a regatta it would be an annual event, not a daily hassle and much smaller in scale than you seem to think.  You would encounter more parking and traffic concerns from the soccer field and baseball fields on an almost daily basis, the boathouse would have little impact on the parking by comparison.  


While it does replace the bridge, I honestly don't see spending millions of dollars on a bridge as a good investment either.  That money could be used to install bike lanes on both the Belmont and Addison brides.  Roscoe ends so shortly after the river that a bike lane on the existing bridges would benefit many more people that a little bridge that would benefit only a few houndred people going between roscoe village and hot dougs. 

Permalink Reply by lorraine reder on May 3, 2012 at 4:26am

I sent letters to the Chicago Park District, Alderman Pawar, Congressman Quigley and Mayor Emanuel.  I received a response from the Chicago Park District, and it's their ascertion that the boat warehouse/crewing facility will only impact 2% of the park!  Their calculation was based on a comparison of the square footage of the boat warehouse to the entire park's acerage, including property east of Rockwell, whichis not green space or part of the designated bird/butterfly sanctuary.  If you compare the 2 acre footprint of the facility to the 7 acres of green space, the result is more like 28.5% of the park is impacted.

 

My sources tell me that the proposal to build the boat warehouse/crewing facility at Clark Park is being driven by a politically connected rowing club, and that the mayor's children are rowers. 

 

Building an enormous boat warehouse/crewing facility in a River Edges park designated as a bird/butterfly sanctuary makes absolutely no sense because of the well-being green space provides for children and the santuary's ecological purpose to provide native habitat for migrating birds.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on May 3, 2012 at 4:36am

I think that a protected bike lane on each side WOULD work if they were to make the road be 1-lane each way like Belmont is East of Western.    Looking at the satellite view I think there would still be enough room for a left-turn lane at Campbell (there is one now with the road being 2-lanes each way) and if they redesigned the bus stop at Western with the rebuild of Western post-overpass and fix that intersection there is no reason why there couldn't be a real protected bike lane on both sides of Belmont from Rockwell all the way to and across Western.   And I'm thinking a REAL protected bike lane with not just bollards, but a 3-foot concrete divider along that entire length due to the fact that cars like to jockey and play bumper-cars when it comes to bridges in this city as the spread out to more lanes and leave ZERO space for bikes to live.  

Then again I'm a bit radical and think most of the bridges over the river and the expressways should have safe passageways for bikes and peds instead of high-speed powered-vehicle traffic  The way this thread is going one wouldn't even think this is a bicycle-related forum but the Alpha Fratta Guy rowing club. 

Carter O'Brien said:

The sidewalk seems like a reasonable option when you're coming off of the riverwalk, but IMO it isn't a good option on a regular basis if you just need to cross river along Belmont. 

The sidewalks are astoundingly/inexplicably narrow, and there are bus stops that are heavily used during rush hour.  Non-rush hour it's really not that bad, but if the goal is to get more people cycling instead of driving to work (which it ought to be), the City has to deal with the crazy that is rush hour, not pretend that cyclists don't need to get work on time like everyone else.

Protected lanes might be a solution here, but I kinda doubt they'd work due to the peculiar dynamic which is the Northbound left turn lane on to Rockwell backing up with DeVry & Lane traffic, and the way the lights/right-turn only & bus lane is set up at Western & Clybourn.  Plus the bus stops. 

All I do know is $9m bucks for a private boathouse nobody asked for and nobody wants in an area with no space to spare is MADNESS.  That's really the bottom line here.  The NIMBY argument doesn't even apply, as it's not like the area is full of rowers, period - it's full of people who want to kayak and canoe.



James BlackHeron said:

I take the sidewalk over Belmont without the slightest bit of guilt.   The bike path dumps onto the sidewalk on the North and East side of the bridge anyhow with a nearly 12" drop-off curb at that point.  I don't know what else a rider coming off the path is supposed to do at this point -dismount, step off the curb, remount and then proceed Westbound?  Cross the bridge at this point 1/3rd of the way over the river and blind because of the crest of the bridge to Eastbound traffic?  I suppose it IS called the "RiverWALK" so that pretty much tells us where bikes fit into the planning of this clusterF@#% of permanent infrastructure.

Just take the sidewalk, and take it slow to be careful of peds and other bikes. 

Crossing again to go South on Rockwell, either through the intersection in vehicular mode and attempting to move to the center of the highway to turn left or utilizing the crosswalk coming off of the non-existent curb-cut  is taking your life into your own hands, because the motorists zooming by at 15-20MPH over the limit sure as hell don't care about it.

Carter O'Brien said:

I don't know what Belmont avenue some of you take, but I will tell you it is as far from a biker's utopian passage as is humanly possible on the north side, it gets a pitiful amount of bike traffic for good reason - the road condition here is terrible, between the jockeying for position thanks to the "rush hour parking controls," bunched up 77 buses and extra lanes over the river a cyclist is the last priority on any driver's mind.  And don't forget the Western overpass is slated for removal.


Liz said:

If the boathouse does hose a regatta it would be an annual event, not a daily hassle and much smaller in scale than you seem to think.  You would encounter more parking and traffic concerns from the soccer field and baseball fields on an almost daily basis, the boathouse would have little impact on the parking by comparison.  


While it does replace the bridge, I honestly don't see spending millions of dollars on a bridge as a good investment either.  That money could be used to install bike lanes on both the Belmont and Addison brides.  Roscoe ends so shortly after the river that a bike lane on the existing bridges would benefit many more people that a little bridge that would benefit only a few houndred people going between roscoe village and hot dougs. 

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