Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on April 21, 2012 at 3:49am

Rapid Transit will build it but it is not cheap; we charge $110 to build a bike.  It seems like a lot, as does even 50 or 65 dollars when you consider they come about half assembled.  However the cheap build, or the home build by an novice, falls short in a could of places.  Here is why it 'pays' to have a good build doneo n your bike by a shop you know does it right:

1. First off there is the issue of time spent on it.  Many bike shops push their builders to turn bikes out as fast as possible.  Many big, high volume, shops want to see 30 minutes or less per bike.  At rapid a build takes between one and two hours depending on interruptions, we are willing to spend the time to get your bike as close to perfect as possible.
2. Good builds pay more attention to the wheels.  We take off the wheels (many place only true the wheels if they hit the brakes and even then only do it on the bike), check the hub adjustment and fix as required, remove the tire, check that it has a good rim strip and replace it with a quality one if it has a crappy one and then set all the spokes, de-stress the wheel, check the tension and bring it up to spec as required and then round and true the wheel.  Honestly it's about half way to a wheel build.
3. We pull the bottom bracket and grease the threads; many cheap bikes have no grease, or not enough grease, on the threads of the bottom bracket.
4. Hone the seat tube to make sure there are no burrs in there to scratch your seat post.
5. Grease the seat post and quill stem if so equipped. 
6. Properly set up the shifting and braking making sure to stretch the cables to minimize cable stretch after the purchase so your bike stays in tune as well as make sure the pads are positioned properly.
7. Install pedal washers with your pedals.
8. Make sure your crank bolts are at the proper torque with a torque wrench; many bikes come with them to tight or to loose.  To loose means the crank arm falls off and to tight means it will be impossible to get off in the future and it is prematurely wearing out the tapered interface.
9. Test ride the bike to make sure it works properly in the road as well as in the stand.

There is a reason things cost what they do at bike shops, it has to do with a level of quality being maintained.

Permalink Reply by S.Presley☠ on April 21, 2012 at 4:40am

Permalink Reply by C.R. on April 21, 2012 at 11:33am

That attitude inhabits most of the local bike shops, along with their exorbitant prices.  If a shop wouldn't work on a bike I had, whether bought online brand new, or 70s, 80s or 90s style vintage bike I most certainly would not give them my money.

A lot of these bikes are made from the same factories in China or Taiwan, so me personally I have no quams about getting the best deal.

As far as shops, my experience has been pretty good with SmartBikeParts.  I usually order online and go in to pickup to avoid tax, and usually get a pretty good deal there.  They do pretty good work too.  If you are looking for better prices on work, I would say hit up either a Performance store, or where I usually go for misc work is REI.  REI is pretty cheap, if you join you're part of a CO-OP so I don't exactly feel like I am completely getting hosed. 

All that said, I think someone suggested to do it yourself, and I would strongly second that.  A few years ago, I got a flat near a Kozy store.  I had the tube, but for whatever reason I didn't have the levers to take off the tire, and to be honest I wasn't at all familiar with exactly how to do it( otherwise, if that would happen today I would McGyver something up).  I walked in, talked to the guy, and they saw me coming haha.  It cost me 18 dollars that day, IIRC or maybe 15.  Regardless, I watched him, and it literally took all of 5 minutes.  I was pretty irritated, and an hour later I got a flat again, as it seemed that there was still some glass left in the tire.  In a lot of the work I've done, there is no substitution for knowing it is done right. 

Once you start learning how your bike works, there isn't really anyplace you can't go, you are self sustaining.  For me it's worked out pretty good, but then again I like knowing how things work, don't mind getting a little dirty, and don't like paying 10$ for someone to tighten a headset (and I am planning a solo tour toward the end of the year).  It is somewhat costly, but myself I have been building my arsenal of tools for a while now.  I figure by the time I am ready to retire, I will be able to completely build a bike, from the ground up. 

Also, I thought I would also mention another shop.  Wheels of Northbrook.  They are close to the metra station in Northbrook, and they have some good prices for their work.  They haven't hit the bicycle expense bubble yet. 

Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on April 21, 2012 at 11:42am

Sigs as in signatures. But if I have to do it, it isn't that important!

I have a full time job again and my limited amount of time for freelance projects is booked up for quite a while.

Julie Hochstadter said:

sigs or signs?  like smiley faces?  I think there is a way, just need help coding it.  Tony, you up a project?

Tony Adams said:

It reminds me of yet another reason to hate ning: no sigs.

Kevin C said:

It's nice to see "persnickety" making a comeback. ;-)

Just Will said:

[snip] Nobody in the business of making money is that persnickety.

[snip]

John W. said:

[snip]

Edit: adding "persnickety" to my post for good measure. :P

Permalink Reply by Joe Willis on April 21, 2012 at 2:01pm

Through all of the above shenanigans no one asked the most important question of all! Zack, where do you live so we can give you the best neighborhood shop or person. If you are around my hood I will be happy to show/help/do it for you (There might be the cost of beer involved). There have been many good suggestions so far but if you are in the south loop or the suburbs none of them are very helpful.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on April 21, 2012 at 3:07pm

I wanna address two statements here.

1. While I will never refuse to work on a bike I will lay out a couple of things to perspective customers, things that sometimes make them upset, and are sometimes the reason a shop will not work on a bike. 

What you need to understands is this: While it is true some of the really crappy bikes out there were/are made in the same factory or by the same company that makes higher end bikes this does not mean they are anywhere close to being the same bike.  Those cheap Huffys and All-Pros from the 70's and the Magna, Pacifics and low end Schwinns of today are built to a very low standard using the worst of components.  They really are a 'bike shaped object' more than they are a bike.  Even brand new and built by a good mechanic (and they are usually not) these bikes tend to not work the best.  Add in some age and abuse and you have a bike that is only going to be a headache for the end user.  Often we see bikes bought from Target and ridden for 2 years that or trashed or old Huffys that have been 'rescued' from a garage by a person who knows little to nothing about bikes.  They come in thinking that they can get the bike repaired and get two more years out of it or that it is some classic worth saving.  Often times it is a bike that the repair of which would exceed the purchase price of the bike new and/or approach that of a superior used bike from a reputable seller.  Not only that but the bike, if repaired, usually cannot be made to become a reliable and smooth functioning bike again without basically rebuilding it with better parts at damn near the cost of a new bike.  

It is a tough conversation to have telling somebody their bike costs more to fix than it is worth and that even if they do fix it the bike is only going to be a continual service headache for both them as us.  Shops like to stand behind their work but it is hard to do when a bike is built from components that were never designed to last beyond a season or two.  At Rapid we will always do the work if they really want to but I take the time to talk to people about it and it is a very stressful experience for both me and the customers.  Usually they end up understanding of the situation and go get a better bike.  Other times they accuse me of up selling them or trying to rip them off.  If not one of those two they wander off and post on message boards and yelp about shops being elitist pricks who don't want to work on their shitty bike...

You're right, we don't want to work on your shitty bike but not because we think it is below us (many of my own bikes are old oddballs others look at and see as junk) but because we want to make sure you get a good value when it comes to service and paying more than a bike is worth to make it half as good as what you could buy for only a little bit more than the repair is doing the customer a diservice.

2. Labor costs are what they are for a reason... Actually lets back up here; It sucks you got a flat right after but it may, or may not, have been glass they missed it could have been a new piece.  However, and I feel the need to add that I once worked for, and am not a fan of, Kozy's but had you brought it back I know for a fact they would have replaced the tube for free.  Bike shops, at least any good one, stands behind their work.  Heck, at Rapid we warranty a flat for 30 days no questions asked.  It goes flat you get a free tube and we replace it for you; yeah our fix costs a bit more but if you get a flat 4 days later because we missed something, or you run over something new, it's on us.

Anyway, back to labor... So the flat fix cost that because you paid 6 for the tube and like 9 bucks for the labor.  It took the mechanic 5 minutes because he does about a million of those a summer; how long does it take you to change a flat?  More time than the mechanic I bet; that is why you pay so much so that it is done quickly, properly and without you getting dirty.

Same goes for brake adjustments and every other repair out there.  We can do them in only a few minutes because we are trained to and we do it so often that we learn to do it in an efficient and quick manner.  Just like that flat above; can you set up a set of post style cantilever brakes making sure the straddle is the right length to get the best actuation and no chatter (did you even know how critical straddle length is to both those things?) and are properly balanced pull and pad position wise faster then I can?  If after it is all installed and it squeaks or is kind of weak what tricks do you know to help with the problem?  Have you paid for all the expensive special tools I need/use to preform bigger jobs and/or make them go faster?  Yeah, you can press in your own headset with a threaded rod, or knock out the cups with a screw driver but do you have a much bigger chance of damaging the cups or the frame using either of those methods?  You betcha do!  And guess what; if you mess it up you are out of luck but if I mess it up we are going to make that situation right. Mistakes and accidents happen and when they happen on the shops time they get fixed on the shops dime; did you really save money doing it yourself if you end up needing to replace the frame after you get done?

It cost money, lots of money, to keep a shop open and staffed with knowledgeable and competent mechanics who can turn your service issues around quickly and at a high level of quality.

Mind you, there is nothing wrong with people learning to work on their own bikes or doing so.  I enjoy helping the DIY customer and I feel an educated consumer who knows what is up with their bike is going to not only have a better experience not only in the shop, but on their bike in general, but also makes my job more enjoyable.  Part of the fun of working in a bike shop is talking to people about bikes and helping them to realize their bike dreams.  By all means do it yourself but do both of us a favor and when you have to come to me because something is beyond your knowledge or you don't want to shell out for a special tool and don't complain when I charge you  to do the work; we all gotta eat man.

C.R. said:

That attitude inhabits most of the local bike shops, along with their exorbitant prices.  If a shop wouldn't work on a bike I had, whether bought online brand new, or 70s, 80s or 90s style vintage bike I most certainly would not give them my money.

A lot of these bikes are made from the same factories in China or Taiwan, so me personally I have no quams about getting the best deal.

All that said, I think someone suggested to do it yourself, and I would strongly second that.  A few years ago, I got a flat near a Kozy store.  I had the tube, but for whatever reason I didn't have the levers to take off the tire, and to be honest I wasn't at all familiar with exactly how to do it( otherwise, if that would happen today I would McGyver something up).  I walked in, talked to the guy, and they saw me coming haha.  It cost me 18 dollars that day, IIRC or maybe 15.  Regardless, I watched him, and it literally took all of 5 minutes.  I was pretty irritated, and an hour later I got a flat again, as it seemed that there was still some glass left in the tire.  In a lot of the work I've done, there is no substitution for knowing it is done right.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on April 21, 2012 at 3:43pm

/\ What Dug said. /\

Permalink Reply by C.R. on April 21, 2012 at 5:38pm

Again, regardless of the bike, any shop that would feel that working on my bike is above them would not get my business, nor would I ever recommend them to anyone I cared about.  IMO any decent shop is willing to figure out what the best option is.  Too often I see shops with staff, who have these stressful conversations with customers about how their bikes aren't worth anything, and that replacing all the components is going to cost more than just buying a newer bike from said shop.  Of course the asembly, adjustments and some labor is free, maybe even in-store discounts on gear for a certain time.  Bike shop staff neglected to ask the customer what they needed the bike for, and the customer just wants something to enjoy their weekend ride on LFP, not to go fast.. The reality is that all these fancy components are luxuries. Bikes from Target and WalMart can be just as rideable as bikes from x_localChicagoBikeStore. 

I would probably suggest to said customers to spend some time at Sheldons site, then take off the derailleurs and go the single speed route.  Fixed, its not just a hipster fad, there is an actual purpose to it in that it's very affordable for the less wealthy, .  A bike really needs a frame, brakes, and wheels.  It costs little to do a calculation on the size chain that individual would need.  At that point, the biggest costs are headsets, bottom brackets, and wheels.  And yes, at that point there isn't much they can do except pay the price for those.  But if the shop doesn't come up with a decent price, the individual can always go on the internet, find out what they need in the form of headsets, brackets, hubs and order the parts at a cheap discount, then have said local shop do the work.  Of course, that is what I would do, I venture to say average Joe would probably just accept the shop's word that the Dura Ace being installed on their 1995 huffy is the cheapest around. 

Biking is a frivolous luxury most of us here enjoy.  Yes, some of us may be commuters, but be honest, if you live in the city the reality is that you can take public trans or walk to most of the places you need to go.  That is one of the main points to living in the city. 

I personally think there is a bicycle bubble, in the same sense that we had a housing bubble and a tech bubble before.  Labor, certain parts, and really, bicycles themselves.  I recently rebuilt a decent 80's bike, flipped it and sold it for over twice what I paid for it.  A lot of people are doing this. Kind of silly, but people pay for it.  Should the economy continue to tank, I tend to think a lot of these shops would go with it.  In reality, I think these online parts stores and bikes dealers will cause a lot of local dealers to go the way of Borders.  Excessive markup, fees, excessive labor costs.

I know it seems I am coming off as anti-local bike shop, I'm not.  I'm pro value.  The reality is it's cyclical, ironically.  A few years ago, amazon e-books essentially forced all the B&M bookstores in Nashville closed (out of business).  Why pay a premium price for books, go into a store and get attitude if you try and plug your laptop or ipad in, get kicked out for sitting around too long.  A year ago, a few local bookstores reopened, with the idea that service AND value are important.  You could charge your ipad or laptop, read local books the shop has, and have someplace to browse online for free. 

As far as working on their own bike, or me working on mine;  I started off a while back at a library, reading about basic bike maintenance.  Later on, I purchased the Park's service manual, and this year I bought the online Barnetts maintenance manual.  Combine that with all the web videos out there on Youtube or others, and there isn't really anything that isn't covered.  I'm sure you do know lots of little tricks, primarily obtained from working on bikes all day.  That's good.  However, the only thing which distinguishes you and I is that you have a shop and all the tools.  Because I don't have 2 32mm wrenches you are going to charge 10 bucks to tighten my friends headset?  It seems excessive to me (especially being that it was done right in front of me).  For 20 dollars I can buy both wrenches, and the next time he wants to go riding with me I can tighten them up.  before or after.

By the end of the year, I plan on having all the tools so that I can legitimately overhaul my headsets.  Next year or year after may be BB or wheels.  I'm probably different than about 90% of people out there, I don't mind doing the work. 

For some things, I probably will take it in.  My issue, and going back to the OP, is where do you go, for the best value, and quality service.  You, and the staff at these shops have to eat, but so do I.  I've never went to RT, so maybe one of these days I will give them a go.  Until then, I would vouch for the ones I said earlier, WoN or give REI a go.  Any shop that says, I don't want to work on a bikes direct bike because it doesn't run D/A or SRAM components, and you didn't buy it from us is well.. is just kind of silly. 

Where I would actually deem a lot of the price worth it, is if you are doing something in the way of Rodriguez bikes, and making the bikes here in the USA. 

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on April 21, 2012 at 8:08pm

All offense meant, you really need to spend some time actually learning about bikes before you continue to blather on about bikes like you know much.

I mean you do realize that Dura-ace is a model and Sram is a brand, right?  Dura-ace is the top tier of Shimano's product line and Sram has a full range of lines, just like Shimano, and their stuff, just like Shimano, is on both the cheapest and most expensive of bikes.  In fact many Wal-mart bikes have Sram components on them what with them being the people who invented Grip-shit stuff...

What should we charge to adjust a headset?  Yeah, you can get the wrenches for 20 bucks but not only do we have to pay for the wrenches we have to pay for the building they are, the stand the mechanic uses, his salary, the lights, the heat, the A/C, the insurance and all the other stuff that it costs to run a business.  Truth be told if you come in and that is all you need there is a good chance I am just going to do it and send you back out the door provided you are a nice guy about it; however if you balk at the idea of paying the charge I am, for sure, going to charge you full price.  I also want to add that if you are adjusting a headset more then once every like six months you are doing something quite wrong initially and need to figure out what the problem with the headset is; a properly adjusted headset should stay that way for some time.

Biking IS NOT a frivolous luxury and that statement shows just how truly ignorant you are about transportive cycling. I ride my bike so I can get place out of the easy reach of transit, so I can haul heavy things without a car and go where I want on my own schedule anywhere with in reasonable (~20 miles or less) distance.  Ever try to get 20 pounds of cat litter and a weeks worth of groceries home via the CTA?  My bike is a hell of a lot cheaper than a cab or a zip car when it comes to a per mile cost, cheaper than the CTA as well depending on the trip; I would say that all the other options out there are frivolous luxuries compared to cycling.

Depending on what a customer is doing with their bike recommending going without gears when the components they have a working properly or only need minor work or can be replaced cheaply is doing them a disservice.  Single speed and fixed gears (two different things BTW, your post makes them sound like the same thing) have their place; I used to ride one every day and plan to again but for anyone who wants to have a bike that is across the board practical as a daily commuter or utility bike you can't beat having some gears and, provided they are maintained well, they really do not cost much to take care of.  I probably spend less time/money taking care of my geared bike because chains and cogs last so much longer because I am putting less stress on the drive train thanks to the choices of gearing and (because I rode fixed) never back pressuring the chain.

Have you ever sat down and compared, side by side, and ridden, one after the other, a Wal-mart bike and even a low level bike shop bike?  If you have not you really need to shut your mouth about the two bikes being able to serve a customer just as well because all you are doing is showing how little you really know about bikes.  Not only is there a massive jump in quality as far ans manufacture and competent choices go but you are going to get the full support of the bike shop behind the build.  When the crappy wheels that have never been properly de-stressed or prepped on that Wal-mart bike detension who is going to stand behind the product?  Who is going to adjust the brakes so they re-center when the springs that are little more than a wet noodle finally give up?  Reading some articles on the internet and fixing a couple of bikes give you just enough knowledge to be dangerous; have you spent enough time around, on and working on bikes to have seen the difference in useful service life of different tiers of parts?  Fact is the really cheap bikes are really cheap for a reason and in the end they are not going to serve the customer, or the cycling community well.  They will not work as well which makes them less enjoyable to ride which sucks for the owner and often makes them give up on trying to cycle more which results in one less cyclist which is less power for us as a whole.  On the whole most people who switch from a crap bike to a decent one are much happier in the end with the better bike; even if they are just riding up and down the LFP for recreation.

It does not seem as if you are coming off anti-local LBS you are coming off anti-local LBS; a condition that I think is growing out of you not really having a very firm grasp on cycling as a form of transportation.

C.R. said:

Again, regardless of the bike, any shop that would feel that working on my bike is above them would not get my business, nor would I ever recommend them to anyone I cared about.  IMO any decent shop is willing to figure out what the best option is.  Too often I see shops with staff, who have these stressful conversations with customers about how their bikes aren't worth anything, and that replacing all the components is going to cost more than just buying a newer bike from said shop.  Of course the asembly, adjustments and some labor is free, maybe even in-store discounts on gear for a certain time.  Bike shop staff neglected to ask the customer what they needed the bike for, and the customer just wants something to enjoy their weekend ride on LFP, not to go fast.. The reality is that all these fancy components are luxuries. Bikes from Target and WalMart can be just as rideable as bikes from x_localChicagoBikeStore. 

I would probably suggest to said customers to spend some time at Sheldons site, then take off the derailleurs and go the single speed route.  Fixed, its not just a hipster fad, there is an actual purpose to it in that it's very affordable for the less wealthy, .  A bike really needs a frame, brakes, and wheels.  It costs little to do a calculation on the size chain that individual would need.  At that point, the biggest costs are headsets, bottom brackets, and wheels.  And yes, at that point there isn't much they can do except pay the price for those.  But if the shop doesn't come up with a decent price, the individual can always go on the internet, find out what they need in the form of headsets, brackets, hubs and order the parts at a cheap discount, then have said local shop do the work.  Of course, that is what I would do, I venture to say average Joe would probably just accept the shop's word that the Dura Ace being installed on their 1995 huffy is the cheapest around. 

Biking is a frivolous luxury most of us here enjoy.  Yes, some of us may be commuters, but be honest, if you live in the city the reality is that you can take public trans or walk to most of the places you need to go.  That is one of the main points to living in the city. 

I personally think there is a bicycle bubble, in the same sense that we had a housing bubble and a tech bubble before.  Labor, certain parts, and really, bicycles themselves.  I recently rebuilt a decent 80's bike, flipped it and sold it for over twice what I paid for it.  A lot of people are doing this. Kind of silly, but people pay for it.  Should the economy continue to tank, I tend to think a lot of these shops would go with it.  In reality, I think these online parts stores and bikes dealers will cause a lot of local dealers to go the way of Borders.  Excessive markup, fees, excessive labor costs.

I know it seems I am coming off as anti-local bike shop, I'm not.  I'm pro value.  The reality is it's cyclical, ironically.  A few years ago, amazon e-books essentially forced all the B&M bookstores in Nashville closed (out of business).  Why pay a premium price for books, go into a store and get attitude if you try and plug your laptop or ipad in, get kicked out for sitting around too long.  A year ago, a few local bookstores reopened, with the idea that service AND value are important.  You could charge your ipad or laptop, read local books the shop has, and have someplace to browse online for free. 

As far as working on their own bike, or me working on mine;  I started off a while back at a library, reading about basic bike maintenance.  Later on, I purchased the Park's service manual, and this year I bought the online Barnetts maintenance manual.  Combine that with all the web videos out there on Youtube or others, and there isn't really anything that isn't covered.  I'm sure you do know lots of little tricks, primarily obtained from working on bikes all day.  That's good.  However, the only thing which distinguishes you and I is that you have a shop and all the tools.  Because I don't have 2 32mm wrenches you are going to charge 10 bucks to tighten my friends headset?  It seems excessive to me (especially being that it was done right in front of me).  For 20 dollars I can buy both wrenches, and the next time he wants to go riding with me I can tighten them up.  before or after.

By the end of the year, I plan on having all the tools so that I can legitimately overhaul my headsets.  Next year or year after may be BB or wheels.  I'm probably different than about 90% of people out there, I don't mind doing the work. 

For some things, I probably will take it in.  My issue, and going back to the OP, is where do you go, for the best value, and quality service.  You, and the staff at these shops have to eat, but so do I.  I've never went to RT, so maybe one of these days I will give them a go.  Until then, I would vouch for the ones I said earlier, WoN or give REI a go.  Any shop that says, I don't want to work on a bikes direct bike because it doesn't run D/A or SRAM components, and you didn't buy it from us is well.. is just kind of silly. 

Where I would actually deem a lot of the price worth it, is if you are doing something in the way of Rodriguez bikes, and making the bikes here in the USA. 

Permalink Reply by C.R. on April 22, 2012 at 3:30am

I do understand that D/A is a component tier and SRAM is a brand..  What I don't understand is how you are so inept that you're unable to grasp and employ the overall concept I implied.  I understand the difference between fixed, and single speed.  For brevity sake, I'm not going to elaborate on each post on what I do know or exactly what the OP need to do, for the simple fact that I've been trying to make points with concepts, hoping it wasn't over heads..  Regardless, this very well could be a "if the shoe fits" scenario, and you certainly are getting your little ego stroked by letting me know that SRAM and Shimano are brands. 

I do understand commuting by bicycle. I understand taking a bike with you to extend ones reach to areas that are harder to go to outside of public trans. I too have a trailer that I use to carry big stuff..  I also know that if folks are ever waiting in line for flour again, rather than pay 1200 for a new bike, they are going to figure out who can get their bike up and going for cheap.  I'm sure the bike shop has the best intent when they decide they would rather not order a headset, and suggest someone purchase a new bike.  You are part of the service industry..  I'm not making the rules, get mad at me all you like, it won't change anything.  Our banking system isn't backed by anything anymore, no gold standard.  So that gives you the option to charge what I consider exorbitant prices. 

Again, if anything I'm not anti-local bike shop.  If you can't accept that I'm pro value, then maybe it would help you understand if I say I'm anti-people-like-you.  The OP said he bought a bike online, which leads me to assume it's either a Nashbar bike or a Bikes Direct bike.  In such case, there aren't so many differences between most of the local bike shop bikes, and the bikes coming from these online wholesalers.  What local bike shops are doing is purchasing a large number from these wholesalers at a discount and then putting them together with components in store.  The customer who purchases from these online wholesalers are just skipping the middle man (that's you FYI).  You aren't custom building bikes here, e.g. Rodriguez cycles.  Or if you are, forgive me for being ingorant, but again, I think you're just be a pretentious prick.  I think the OP really needs to think twice about stopping by your shop, as there are plenty out there that are willing to service a chinese or taiwanese bike.  I'm betting that you are the shop that rotates the wheel while it's still on the bike, "looks good to go".. 

I'm not sure when all this WalMart/ Target bikes was thrown into the mix.  He said he bought a bike online.  Nevertheless a good bike mech will be able to look at what it takes to get the bike running again, even if it's a WalMart Huffy.  You can denigrate people who shop at wal mart all you want, that's what most elitists do, what most good bike mechanics do is assess what can be done for a customer to get them up an going.  You can also insult me however you like, but ultimately your inability to understand these trivial concepts is why I think I would avoid your shop.  I think I've threadjacked enough, and am checking out of this one.  To the OP, there are plenty of options out there.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on April 22, 2012 at 4:29am

A BikesDirect or Nashbar bike isn't the problem -what it comes down to is that without proper set-up it's not going to be a very good ride for the owner and is going to be a constant source of trouble and issues -assuming the bike is actually ridden regularly and not going to be a garage queen that never gets more than 500 miles before it finally ends up completely inert & collecting dust in a basement or hanging in a garage. 

Poor assembly would cover things like parts that need grease such as the bottom bracket and headset which are just not going to it.   That alone will end up giving the OP trouble in the long run that will most probably far outweigh any savings when it needs attention within the first thousand miles of ownership.  These are jobs that cost quite a bit to service and most riders don't seem to be competent enough to tackle themselves. Cha-ching -pay the expert to fix it and pay more in the long run...

I see thread after thread here on The Chainlink (and on  other forums like BikeForums) that start with "I'm breaking spokes and/or having trouble keeping my wheels alighned and this is costing me a lot of money to keep running."   Machine-made wheels on these interenet-bargain bikes are going to have these issues fairly soon if the bike is actually RIDDEN.  I guess "sort of round" doesn't hurt a bike when it is just being rolled around the garage to get to the lawnmower but if you are riding the bike regularly the cost of replacing wheels that self-destruct because they were not set up right from the start and stress-relieved properly is going to be another pocketbook buster.  A wheel that is true and round but poorly-built will not stay that way long.  This is just how things are with wheels.

Brakes that are never set up correctly and/or running on wheels that are no longer true are going to be another source of problems and are also a safety issue.  If you do not like fiddling with something you really don't understand fully this will be a "quality of ride" problem and a reason why many people just don't like to get on their bikes when those of us with well-tuned bikes get nothing but ear-to-ear grins whenever we are riding.  The same goes for modern geared bikes.  Bikes that can't shift correctly and stutter and shudder every time one tries to shift makes for a bike that is THE SUCK instead of crisp shifts that go CLICK-CLICK-CLiCK like an extension of you brain where you can just effortlessly change gears every 30 seconds all day long if you want to suit the changing riding conditions.  The same components can be yuck or absolutely brilliant just from the knowledge of how to set them up.

Finally there is a difference in component levels.  Sure,  you can get SIS or Sora to shift cleanly and be a nice ride but for most folks this fine state of tune is not going to be something they can maintain themselves and it will quickly deteriorate as cables stretch and/or springs get weak.  That's what you get with the cheaper component levels.  It'll take constant fiddling with the adjustments to keep it smoothly-shifting whereas higher-end derailleurs, shifters/brifters will stay in tune longer and without much user fine-tuning.    With bikes you often get what you pay for as the price goes up and get into trouble as the price goes down.  There is a sweet-spot in the middle where price/value is fairly good but there is a drop-off where things go downhill quite quickly and new stuff turns to junk very rapidly in under 1000 miles of riding from a new bike to basketcase.  Even some of the lower-end bike-shop bikes are somewhat like that.  The big-box bikes (especially if not set up correctly) will pretty much self-destruct in short order if actually ridden.  

Call this snobbishness or call it basic bike wisdom these facts are just the way things are.   

I'm not one to stand up always for the bike-shops or the buy-local bikes concept for those people who are knowledgable enough about bikes to know what is what and can work on and build their own bikes.  I buy a lot of stuff from online and only rarely will utilize the pricey expertise of my LBS.  But I think I'm a little more advanced than the average rider when it comes to wrenching knowledge.  While the LBS may be an expensive resource for those who need it this outside expertise at a cost may very well pay for itself in the end.  TANSTAAFL  

Often it is worth it in the end not to do stuff yourself if you are not qualified or willing to put in the effort to become qualified.  Just pay the guy who IS qualified to do the work and don't insult him by bringing in something you bought online and got over your head with and NOW want him to bail you out with.   Sure, a good bike shop should be gracious and see this as an opportunity to win a new customer into "right thinking" and using them from the start.  Often bike-shop folks are not the best with the customer service skills (really -who would have thought it???) so when someone does get themselves into a situation like this don't be surprised if they give you attitude.   Even those of us who DO know what we are doing get attitude from these guys and we don't try and insult them like this.

Think about what YOU do for a living to pay the bills and some dude just thinking they can do whatever that is that you have trained to do, perhaps are certified to do with a professional license and accreditation.  Something that is more than just simple brain-dead labor.  Now have these guys who  "got over their heads" and bring in a job for you they can't do when they figured they could cut you (the middleman) out of the equation to save a few bucks -but now wants a hand doing it but for a bargain-based handout price.  Would you be gracious and bail them out on the cheap?  Or would you be a bit snarky and engage in some schadenfreude at the guy who disrespected what you do for  a living?  Even if you do charge the normal price this guy is probably going to THINK you are overcharging him anyhow.  

If you think this sort of "help me out" service from an expert gets expensive in the bike world it is 10x worse in the construction/skilled-trades.  As an electrician I've done many service calls for folks who thought they could wire their own X and got over their heads.  At $75/hour+ on the clock I can tell you it makes going to an LBS for shop work to fix mistakes or whatever seem like child's play.   And that isn't even including if something blew up or started a fire that damaged their property.  I've seen some pretty wild stuff working as an electrician where a handyman or well-meaning guy thought they could do electricial work without really knowing what they were doing.  Usually it's only money and resources that get wasted -hopefully nobody got killed or seriously injured...

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on April 22, 2012 at 4:47am

THIS:

James BlackHeron said:

Think about what YOU do for a living to pay the bills and some dude just thinking they can do whatever that is that you have trained to do, perhaps are certified to do with a professional license and accreditation.  Something that is more than just simple brain-dead labor.  Now have these guys who  "got over their heads" and bring in a job for you they can't do when they figured they could cut you (the middleman) out of the equation to save a few bucks -but now wants a hand doing it but for a bargain-based handout price.  Would you be gracious and bail them out on the cheap?  Or would you be a bit snarky and engage in some schadenfreude at the guy who disrespected what you do for  a living?  Even if you do charge the normal price this guy is probably going to THINK you are overcharging him anyhow.  

If you think this sort of "help me out" service from an expert gets expensive in the bike world it is 10x worse in the construction/skilled-trades.  As an electrician I've done many service calls for folks who thought they could wire their own X and got over their heads.  At $75/hour+ on the clock I can tell you it makes going to an LBS for shop work to fix mistakes or whatever seem like child's play.   And that isn't even including if something blew up or started a fire that damaged their property.  I've seen some pretty wild stuff working as an electrician where a handyman or well-meaning guy thought they could do electricial work without really knowing what they were doing.  Usually it's only money and resources that get wasted -hopefully nobody got killed or seriously injured...

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