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Permalink Reply by Jason W on January 31, 2011 at 4:07am

Looks like he's at least trying to pay lip service to us now. I want to know what streets...

Gabe said:

http://www.chicagoforrahm.com/issues/transportation

 

Tweeted by Rahm 10 minutes ago ;-) HIs plan for makin chicago more bike friendly.

 

And Chico on our wonderful Sales Tax:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsEjbPwpg4k

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 31, 2011 at 4:32am

Peds already consider the bike lane to be an extension of the sidewalk even though it is on the other side of the cars usually.  I can only imagine how many more issues we'd have with peds, and people getting in/out of cars right next to the sidewalk and curb. 

 

As it is now one can always move around bike-lane blockages by taking the driving lane.  Trapped between the curb and the cars where are you going to go?

 

Progress will be much slower as we'll be forced to slow/wait every time someone is getting in or out of a car, or a ped is shambling around in the bike lane on their cell or walking their dog in it.  There will be lane blockages when people park too far over and delivery vehicles use it.  How will we get around these easily?  Hopping the curb onto the sidewalk is the only way if we are parked in by cars on the left.

 

Maybe this is idea is supported by Big Bicycle Rim^tm. Is money to support this idea coming from Sun^tm, Weinmann^tm, and Bontrager^tm?

 

Gabe said:

Goof ;-) we already get doored - i'd rather be doored onto the sidewalk then into traffic ;-)

Dr. Doom said:

Why does Rahm want cyclists to get doored?

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Permalink Reply by Jason W on January 31, 2011 at 4:47am

I guess you two can always ride on the roads that don't have separate bike lanes? I'm sure they'll be few and far between (IF they ever get made at all).

 

BTW, these usually have curbs to insure that people won't park over too far, and delivery vehicles don't block it, so that can only improve. I'm not sure there will be more pedestrian issues frankly. Peds mostly fear bikes, the others will get buzzed and knocked out of the way until they learn not to be in the bike lane.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 31, 2011 at 4:59am

They have a spot in Madison on the UW campus where they have those "protected" bicycle lanes where it is a curb on both sides.  They had to put up a continuous ugly steel guardrail fence on the sidewalk side to keep peds out of it.  Even so they still duck under it and dart out into the bike lane -especially at class-passing time.  University Avenue/Johnson Street are a freaking zoo for 10 minutes every hour or so.  

 

I'll tell you that this isn't fun AT ALL as there is no where to go because you can't swerve.  You end up into the curb (and the head-on into the posts of the steel fence erection) or hitting the ped and/or the ground. 

 

As far as a bike/ped collision goes the bike and rider usually take the worst of the damage.  Bent forks/frame/wheel/rash.

 

This is just a stupid idea. 

Jason W said:

I guess you two can always ride on the roads that don't have separate bike lanes? I'm sure they'll be few and far between (IF they ever get made at all).

 

BTW, these usually have curbs to insure that people won't park over too far, and delivery vehicles don't block it, so that can only improve. I'm not sure there will be more pedestrian issues frankly. Peds mostly fear bikes, the others will get buzzed and knocked out of the way until they learn not to be in the bike lane.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 31, 2011 at 5:04am

And I'll add one more reason why this is a stupid idea:

 

Once the ped issue arises it isn't going to be an "until they learn not to be in the bike lane" issue.  After the infrastructure is built and they realize there is a problem I can tell you what the solution will be -SPEED LIMITS for bikes in these lanes.  Surely, it will follow to make them "safe" for all.  The good of the many...

 

Is that what we want?  I can bet they will be low too -10MPH or something idiotic like that.

 

Best this is nipped in the bud right now if we want to keep bicycling around town the handy/quick transportation option it is now. 

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Doom on January 31, 2011 at 5:09am

I think the idea generally is silly, but I have no problem with putting these downtown and on some arterials, as if you connected separated paths to the lakefront you'd likely get a lot more commuting.

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Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on January 31, 2011 at 6:15am

No James.  The new bike lane design's big supporter is Big Concrete and Big Curb (Kerb).  And I have a feeling it will be in cahoots with Big Darkness to hurt cyclists at night.  Hopefully anyone who is the victim of this conspiracy is wearing a Big Helmet.

James Baum said:

Peds already consider the bike lane to be an extension of the sidewalk even though it is on the other side of the cars usually.  I can only imagine how many more issues we'd have with peds, and people getting in/out of cars right next to the sidewalk and curb. 

 

As it is now one can always move around bike-lane blockages by taking the driving lane.  Trapped between the curb and the cars where are you going to go?

 

Progress will be much slower as we'll be forced to slow/wait every time someone is getting in or out of a car, or a ped is shambling around in the bike lane on their cell or walking their dog in it.  There will be lane blockages when people park too far over and delivery vehicles use it.  How will we get around these easily?  Hopping the curb onto the sidewalk is the only way if we are parked in by cars on the left.

 

Maybe this is idea is supported by Big Bicycle Rim^tm. Is money to support this idea coming from Sun^tm, Weinmann^tm, and Bontrager^tm?

 

Gabe said:

Goof ;-) we already get doored - i'd rather be doored onto the sidewalk then into traffic ;-)

Dr. Doom said:

Why does Rahm want cyclists to get doored?

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Permalink Reply by Vilda on January 31, 2011 at 6:18am

so wait are the people above Doom sayin that pedestrians aren't already in the bike lane? and that crap isnt in the bike lane already? generally i encounter more garbage and potholes in the bike lane as well as ups/fed ex trucks and then pedestrian joggers, people hailing cabs, gettin in there cars, etc... and if it's covered in snow we go back to bein in the lane.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 31, 2011 at 6:58am

It'll just be worse, and we'll be trapped in there between the cars and the ke curb. Not only will we be trapped, but if the city spends a whole crapload of money making these and we don't like them we might be forced to use them and lose the right to use the real road or even be forced off of certain roads that don't have them.

 

I see this as a bad thing -our own little time-out corner.  Forget about "share the road" -we will likely be legally banished to these speed-limited pedestrian & delivery-vehicle-littered narrow perhaps even curbed-in debris lanes with few other alternatives but to use the narrow garbage-filled dumpster corridors.

 

Or that's the fear we have.  I guess we'll see how it plays out.

Gabe said:

so wait are the people above Doom sayin that pedestrians aren't already in the bike lane? and that crap isnt in the bike lane already?

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 31, 2011 at 8:23am

A few more thoughts:

 

Maybe they will make it a little bit wider than a typical bike lane but make it 2-way (see bike jousting in an earlier thread) and put it only on one side of the road -which would take up less space than having a lane on both sides. 

At least that way the car-dooring issue would be a head-on issue and people opening the car door would be facing the bike traffic the door would interfere with -hopefully helping a little because they are at least facing the right way to look even though they probably won't care to check anyhow.  When the bikes DO get doored anyway they will at least be hitting at a glancing blow of a half-opened door from the outside rather than the "suicide" direction from the inside of the door getting "caught in the crotch" of the door. I suppose I'd rather be doored this way than the other way if I had to make a choice.

 

If the bikes were all on the one side of the road it'd make it easier to control us in traffic although turning left would be more complex.  We'd have to go back to the old "around the square" method of left turning where you go across the street and wait for the light to turn then move along with traffic on the perpendicular road you have turned left onto as that road had the green.  Perhaps in some of the busyier/nastier intersections they'd have extra traffic light signals for the bikes to obey/follow. 

 

If bikes didn't want to use these lanes there'd be mucho friction between the autos and those bikes in the smaller area of the road left for "the cars" and I'd imagine calls for laws to force bikes into the segregated bike lanes.   Maybe even banning bike from other nearby/parallel main arterial traffic routes that don't have them -funneling even more bikes into the crowded jousting corridors.

 

I don't think  "separate but equal" road lanes for bikes and cars is a good idea.  But I see that it may be coming to an arterial city street near you soon.  We probably won't be given a choice as bicyclists.  When it comes down from Da Mayor it'll be a Fait accompli and a bunch of these abominations will be built all at the same time with much money spent.  They won't want to tear them back out once they find out they have issues.  They'll just pass a bunch of laws like speed limits for "the safety of the users" once collisions with peds and other bikes becomes a matter of record.  I don't really like where it will go from there.

Duane Waller said:

Also, what about slower riders? You really have no room to pass, do you? Yeah, this idea is all sorts of wonderful.

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Permalink Reply by Duppie on January 31, 2011 at 8:33am

Yeah, keep on throwing out arguments against cycle tracks. That way we will have continue to have the image of freak-show forever.

 

Reality is that to see real increases in bicycling as a transportation mode, you do need to invest money in infrastructure. It's a fact that all successful cities (European as well as US) share. Cycle tracks are one of the (various) investmenst a city can make to increase ridership. Dissing them off hand isn't going to help increasing ridership

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 31, 2011 at 8:37am

A few images of it not sucking too bad -but still "separate but equal."

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