...."Why isn't daley sucking up to Schwinn to build a factory, do we need more stores to sell cheap crap?"
OK I was on another discussion and I'm wondering...
Is any one else bothered by the big deal made about wallmart coming to Chicago, when what we really need is GOOD long term jobs here....
Why isn't daley trying to bring back at least SOME manufacturing here? I mean with so many people unemployed the cost of labour MUST be down, I know Schwinn is nothing more than a name BUT there must be some companies that would be willing to try, also since the price of land is down....How about SRAM? they are headquartered here.
So are we just a bunch of blind sheep that want our kids to play with lead painted toys from China because they are a buck? Or is anyone willing to pay more to have a non lead painted toy?
Isn't there a big drywall company with offices here in Chicago ? Why did China drywall show up in the south east with mystery stuff in it that MAY be toxic ?
I just think it's time for a real change
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David on
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To be honest, I can think of very, very few advantages being inside the city limits would have for a manufacturing plant. Even if you managed to attract them with massive tax breaks and giveaways, they'd probably just move when the tax breaks ran out because it doesn't make a lot of business sense to be here.
The comments about China are relevant in a US vs. foreign manufacturing conversation, but even if imports went to zero I think manufacturing would still be more likely to be situated in rural and suburban areas.
I agree that real changes are needed, but I just don't think manufacturing is going to be the answer. To bring this back to chainlink a bit, in my opinion massive improvements in bike and public transit infrastructure would attract high-skilled knowledge workers to the city and good jobs would follow. But that's another topic for another day.
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Permalink Reply by Duppie on
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No disrespect here, but this thread is a a CF waiting to happen. You touch waaayyy to many (unrelated) topics to get a good conversation. I noticed (and I may have missed a few):
-walmart
- loss of manufacturing jobs
- bike manufacturing in chicago
- Chinese drywall
I have an opinion on each of them, but where to start?
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Well instaed of going from no taxes to ripping them off what about a realistic long term rate? Are we really ALL that stupid that teaser rates still attract us? Any one had their 3 year ARM go through the roof?
Well I guess I was China bashing, of course imports can never go to zero, but they can be less.
Manufacturing may not be THE answer, but I don't get the last part of your answer if we have massive improvements in bike and public transportation what good jobs would follow? Cashiers at wallmart? And now we all know construction isn't the answer
I don't think everyone in this city has a 4 year or better degree, we cant all be doctors and lawers and such...
David said:To be honest, I can think of very, very few advantages being inside the city limits would have for a manufacturing plant. Even if you managed to attract them with massive tax breaks and giveaways, they'd probably just move when the tax breaks ran out because it doesn't make a lot of business sense to be here.
The comments about China are relevant in a US vs. foreign manufacturing conversation, but even if imports went to zero I think manufacturing would still be more likely to be situated in rural and suburban areas.
I agree that real changes are needed, but I just don't think manufacturing is going to be the answer. To bring this back to chainlink a bit, in my opinion massive improvements in bike and public transit infrastructure would attract high-skilled knowledge workers to the city and good jobs would follow. But that's another topic for another day.
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Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on
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Thank you Frank. Well put.
Yes, Rick, you need to focus on a few related things. I'd suggest throwing out the drywall reference, lead toys reference and Walmart reference.
Duppie said:No disrespect here, but this thread is a a CF waiting to happen. You touch waaayyy to many (unrelated) topics to get a good conversation. I noticed (and I may have missed a few):
-walmart - loss of manufacturing jobs - bike manufacturing in chicago - Chinese drywall
I have an opinion on each of them, but where to start?
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Schwinns are currently manufactured in China(surprise). According to wikipedia, "On September 11, 2001, Schwinn Company, its assets, and the rights to the brand, together with that of the GT Bicycle, was purchased at a bankruptcy auction by Pacific Cycle, a company previously known for mass-market brands owned by Wind Point Partners.[46] In 2004 Pacific Cycle was, in turn, acquired by Dorel Industries. Pacific and Dorel produced a series of low-cost bicycles built in Taiwan and the People's Republic of China, which were badged with the Schwinn nameplate and sold in large retail stores such as Wal-Mart, Target, and Costco."
Though the manual for my '07 Schwinn World DBX says Pacific Cycle on it.
H3N3 said:Just wondering if you know the history of Schwinn.
It went bankrupt in the 80s, and an asian company (Chinese I think) bought the name-- they put their HQ in Colorado for imaging purposes . . . probably would not be the most likely company to want to move manufacturing to Chicago.
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So fine dump the China bashing, Like I said I just used Schwinn for an example....
And focuse the subject....
Why not try to attract manufacturing (generally good paying trade jobs) Yeah lets include bike manufacturing to the city instead of retail (generally part time low paying jobs)
Didn't mean for this to be a CF....I just get easily sidetracked....
I already get that making stuff here may increase prices a bit, but I for one am willing to pay a little more if I can to buy something made here
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I see your point, but I think you're conflating two different issues. One is how get to manufacturing to return to the US, the second is how to get more manufacturing in Chicago.
I can see ways to achieve the former, many people could be interested in buying things made in the US because of better quality, safety standards, worker treatment, etc. But why Chicago? I see very few advantages to a manufacturing company in being located inside the city limits. And apart from a few niche industries, I find it very hard to imagine a major "buy Chicago - down with Peoria" movement among consumers.
I don't see any way Chicago or any big city can compete on the basis of taxes, no matter what kind of sweetheart deal we cut or how much sucking up we do. Long ago, cities had significant transportation advantages, but that hasn't been true for decades. What other advantages do you think Chicago has over suburban or rural areas for the manufacturing industry?
Rick norris said:Well instaed of going from no taxes to ripping them off what about a realistic long term rate? Are we really ALL that stupid that teaser rates still attract us? Any one had their 3 year ARM go through the roof?
Well I guess I was China bashing, of course imports can never go to zero, but they can be less.
Manufacturing may not be THE answer, but I don't get the last part of your answer if we have massive improvements in bike and public transportation what good jobs would follow? Cashiers at wallmart? And now we all know construction isn't the answer
I don't think everyone in this city has a 4 year or better degree, we cant all be doctors and lawers and such...
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Permalink Reply by J on
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Rick norris said:I already get that making stuff here may increase prices a bit, but I for one am willing to pay a little more if I can to buy something made here
There is currently no shortage of domestically made frames, but let's be real. The price delta is not a little more. It's a lot more.
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The topic of moving bike manufacturing back from China to mainland US has subject of a thread already.
But to expand on it a bit:
On the supply side: The problem is not just building and assembling frames. The entire ecosystem has moved to Asia: The bicycle manufacturers as well as the component manufacturers are now located in the Pacific. And if other industries are an example, it is only a matter of time before some of the (component) R&D moves there as well. Obviously supply chains are better than they were in the 80's when Schwinn moved to Mississippi and nearly went bankrupt because of disruptions in their supply chain, but it still makes it more complicated to source parts from across the world.
On the demand side: A lot of people that ride bikes do it for economic reasons and I doubt that they can afford to buy anything but a Wallyworld bike. To see that in action, skip Get-A-Grip and their fancy made in the USA Serottas and instead head to a shop like Uptown bikes, and watch the customers come in: These are not your college educated big-city white liberal type of folks who think nothing of buying a $100+ Brooks saddle. These are the poor and recent immigrants who have to make a decision on whether to buy food or get that flat tire fixed. For them cost is the driving factor in making a purchase decision
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Well I think since Chicago is still in the USA I don't see it as two issues, I get what your saying about inside city limits. I guess I just don't understand how can a retail store can pay taxes and turn a profit why cant a factory? Yeah citys would have to make tax breaks that are long term and low but why not?
Is it better to be getting a buck or two than nothing?
The advantage a factory would have is that they would manufacture for export, bring outside money into the country, a store generally sells in it's own area (I am excluding nich type stores that may export throught the internet, or othwer ways)
As far as why Chicago..because I live here. There are already empty factory buidings in areas. On the west side I believe there are still ample RR spurs for freight. There are lots of un emplyed people in this city.
If more people worked (example) on the west side there would be a demand for public transportation, at some point the goons(sorry 'nother subject) our wonderfull city leaders would provide busses because those bus lines would be profitable.
If we go with the idea of manufacturing in far rural areas, then we become more car dependent to get people from the city to work. Because lets face it with out a big sidetrack discussion that is what will happen.
The idea, or I guess MY idea is to bring jobs to the masses, instead of moving the masses to the jobs.
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Just a 2 cent note...
that I agree that I expect to not see traditional manufacturing sectors return to central urban areas anytime in my lifetime. It is interesting to drive out of town on I-55, for example. You will quickly see what type of landscape manufacturing construction has chosen: Low density, very large land plots, edge of suburbia and exurbia, directly adjacent to interstate access points, etc.
My 2 cent note is just an thought & observation I've had. Could be slightly inaccurate, what do I know?!
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Oh, but wait a minute!!! Where is that "build bikes in Detroit" guy when you need him from a while back! :) haha
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