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His e-mail subject was: Don't Blame BP |
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As Clark said, we choose our paths. Nobody "makes" anyone do anything.
Can't respond to the bit about elitism or sitting in front of a computer without some effort on your part to frame that argument in a way that makes some sort of sense.
JKH said:Suggesting that someone change jobs is the biggest bunch of elitist bullshit I've heard in a long time. It's easy to feel smug when you sit on your ass in front of a computer for a living. There are jobs necessary for our society that require driving. Would you suggest that everyone that is socially conscience get a job that doesn't require driving? As a fabricator I manage to use a Subaru wagon for a job that most people use a full size pickup or van. I also schedule my work so I can bike about half the time. Should I quit so someone with a F-250 takes my place. I say if you are promoting career changes everyone in a cubicle should get a job in construction and use a fuel efficient vehicle. This would do a lot more good than most of the suggestions made here.
Not sure why you need to discount the effect of choosing not to drive-- it's the single most effective change most of us can make. The argument that you have to either reduce your ecological footprint to zero or not even bother is childish and depressing.
There's a report (which I've not read, because it is long and I'm busy) from the United Nations in 2006 that says that the meat industry produces more greenhouse gases than all the SUVs, cars, trucks, planes, and ships in the world combined. The reference is here. Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but it seems like becoming a vegetarian is the single most effective change most of us can make.
Actually, the most effective change would be for humans to become extinct.
H3N3 said:Not sure why you need to discount the effect of choosing not to drive-- it's the single most effective change most of us can make. The argument that you have to either reduce your ecological footprint to zero or not even bother is childish and depressing.
Sorry Howard, I wasn't intending to condescendingly lecture you...but in rereading my post I can see how you might have inferred it. Perhaps not here in this forum, but usually when I tell folks I've given up my car, it provokes a "holier than thou" reaction from them. So I always add a disclaimer, that I recognize that I'm still a polluter...my original sin.
I actually think population control is our only long-term answer. With 7 billion people in the world, and another billion being added every 11 years, we will have many problems to confront in the next 100 years. Energy will only be one of them. But telling people to have fewer kids is more provocative than telling them to give up their car. Not to mention the religious and political overtones of that message.
H3N3 said:Sorry, Clark, I appreciate the backup but I never said anyone was scot free of anything and I find the implication that this would not have occurred to me condescending and insulting.
Actually, the most effective change would be for humans to become extinct.
H3N3 said:Not sure why you need to discount the effect of choosing not to drive-- it's the single most effective change most of us can make. The argument that you have to either reduce your ecological footprint to zero or not even bother is childish and depressing.
Not sure why you need to discount the effect of choosing not to drive-- it's the single most effective change most of us can make. The argument that you have to either reduce your ecological footprint to zero or not even bother is childish and depressing.
JKH said:It is impossible to live in our society without having a negative environmental impact and it's not enough to say I don't drive. What are you actually doing to decrease pollution? My point is that running away from the physical world isn't helping at all. Things need to move, be built, be grown and best way to help is to figure out how to do it better.
Of course we all are responsible for the current mess and we should do what we can and part of that should be boycotting BP
Can you show me where anyone has expressed this "concept" in this thread?
The concept that you can not being doing good for the world if you drive a car or use petrol to do your job is close-minded, elitist and in the end more damaging to the cause as a whole because it turns off people who are not as dedicated as you are.
I was in a crappy mood and having a bad day during my previous posts, sorry.
Overall, though, there are different messages that need to get out at different times to different audiences in the course of trying to create social change, and if you happen to party to a message that's meant for a different audience I think it would be healthier to acknowledge as much and move on.
I've been at this for 10 years and I can't even remember a small percentage of the times I've gotten the "the time is not right" or "that message turns people off" response to the message that we need to move away from the personal automobile as our dominant mode of travel.
Like anyone's going to get back in touch with me and let me know when the time is right . . .
I still don't get the desk job/elistism thing, sorry-- it sounds like you're expressing a bitter disdain of anyone who is left-leaning and has quit car ownership, but I still can't figure out exaxtly why.
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