Hi knowledgeable ones:
I need to clean up my bike and need to pick up a new chain and chain clamp thingamajig. I am interested in doing most work myself. Where would you tell me to go for the best selection/price? My bike isn't high end, so am looking for reasonable prices. Are there some favorite places out there?
Thanks for your input.
Cheers
Tags:
lol
Most bike shops or guys that work in them started off as basement mechanics...as well as old school bike mechanics and builders....
I mean I don't get it.
excuse me for trying to make the world greener and building and converting cycles for the masses.
I can fix and repair anything I sell. If I can't fix or repair it,I don't sell it.
I think you're aiming missles at flys on this one: putting too much energy into something that is impossible to defeat.
First,you start riding,then you start wondering,then you start tinkering,then you start fixing,then start converting,and then you start building ....and that's when you open up a business....
Like I said, I'm not the avg consumer , and I love my LBS, but it does not start and end with them.....You do what is best for your situation.
We agree to disagree.
Nothing more is needed here.
notoriousDUG said:First thing: You are what is one of the most annoying of all people out there when it comes to people who own shops or provide a legitimate service; you are the jerk who is running a pretend business out of your basement and taking money from the hands of people who have a legit business. Rather then spend money on insurance, making sure sales tax is paid, carrying insurance and doing all of the other stuff a bike ship has to do you are simply acting as a uninsured, taxless bike shop operating out of a no overhead location. Somebody gets hurt because of a bike you built or a part you sold what are you going to do? Are you prepared to fight the legal battle? Do you have to follow all the laws and carry all the costs a real bike shop does? Are you, as an individual, be held to the standard that a real shop is when a customer is dissatisfied?
People doing business like you do are the reason people who own shops tear their hair out because it's hard for them to charge enough to cover costs when they have to compete with somebody who doesn't have to play by the rules. You want to criticize the shops for their prices and practices because you can do it cheaper, try doing it RIGHT and cheaper and see where that gets you.
Second thing:
So when you save the 50 bucks on that wheel set what are you going to do if they come damaged and the seller tells you to pack sand? How about when you sell them to your 'patron' and they end up having a chronic issue with going out of true, are you going to stand behind them for your 'patron' out of your cost because chance are the e-bay guy isn't.
Third thing
your grocery store analogy is just ignorant. Store to store with a brick and mortar is shopping around; people do the same thing with bike parts. Now if it was buying them in the store vs. online then you would be apples to apples. The issue here is buying online vs. buying local, not shopping for the best price. When you shop local you are putting money back into your local economy and doing good for your community. When was the last time E-bay guy or Amazon did something for the local bike community? Last week I gave out prizes at a fund raiser donated by Ciclo Urbano, I have won prizes donated by Boulevard Bikes and other shops I can not think of off hand, Smart Bike Parts has put a beer in my hand more then once; do your e-bay savings do anything to help the community or promote cycling in yout city, because my purchases at the LBS sure as hell do. I shop, mostly, at Boulevard and Ciclo and every time I drop coin there the little extra I pay makes me happy because I know it is going to help the community, pay the salaries of those who help me all the time and generally make this area a better place to live.
Fourth thing:
You want to justify the way you do things by calling them good business then you need to actually be a business, not just some guy faking it out of his basement.
mfa cycle factory said:Exploit in the sense that they take advantage of that opportunity,because that's
what is, a good opportunity to do business.period.
What do bikeshops do?
They purchase wholesale from places like qbp and sell at a highe price. Now,I don't have any qualms with that.It's business (key word).However, you mean to tell me I can't do the same? I can't search for the best price?
gtfoh.
How many people go to their local grocery stores or produce places to buy their goods?...,.Most people are willing travel miles and miles to places like trader joes or Aldis to get the best deals...are they wrong?
no.it's business(key word).
As a basement mechanic,I've moved over to the other side. The same side that my lbs is own. I search for the best deals and prices...again,I'm not part of the consumer market or field.
Patron comes to me and says,"hey,I want you to convert bike using a 700c vuelta wheelset".Right then and there I have factor in cost. How can i can I get him the wheelset he wants without killing my piggy bank,because I'm building the patron a bike at a set cost?....I research...
first I call around by calling all the lbs in the city,because the quicker I get the wheelset,the better. all the shops I call want 150 for the wheelset, but they have to order it. I make note of that and move on. ....
I go on eBay and do a search. Some guy in
Jersey has the wheelset for 100.00 ,plus free shipping...sold!.....why?....business(key word)....that's why......Not only am I getting a good deal on the wheels,but I'm not being charged for shipping,and it's going to be delivered to my house in the same amount of time it would take the lbs to receive it...
Dollar and cents(sense)= good business(key word)
notoriousDUG said:This is nothing but bullshit rationalization of your behavior... How can you tell me that as a basement builder who uses a ton of parts your decision to purchase online is not a massive blow to your local bike shop? While it is possible that you might never spend much on service with a shop compared to the average cyclist I would be willing to bet that your parts purchases in a year far exceed those of the average cyclist.
Of course when I consider the fact that you feel bike shops 'exploit' the customers who seek service from them I am pretty sure that any argument I have for supporting your local shop is going to fall upon deaf, and ignorant, ears.
Any of you who feel that bike shops are exploiting their customers sit down and figure out their monthly costs vs. their labor rate, mark up and cash flow numbers for the year and then come back and tell me if you feel exploited. As a person who owns a shop (non-bike related) I can not even start to tell you how offensive it is to have people who are obviously ignorant to the cost of doing business complain about pricing on stuff.
mfa cycle factory said:I here what you are saying. However, I am not a regular consumer.I fit in the
basement mechanic category, and that category is not large in population,so it does not
have a huge effect on the revenue that lbs generate yearly.
Your avg consumers do not know anything about bikes,so they are going to be the ones pumping money and providing revenue for LBS,which is the way it is suppose to be. LBS exist for the purpose of providing services to people that don't know how to fix their bikes. That market will always be there for
LBS to exploit (just saying).
The more a person learns about building and working on bikes,the less visits that person will make to the lbs.....which is why some lbs like to keep people ignorant when it comes to bikes...
it's a catch 22
notoriousDUG said:mfa cycle factory said:
online:75 percent
lbs:15 percent
craigslist:10 percent.
No crying when local bike shops close then...
mfa cycle factory said:
Dollar and cents(sense)= good business(key word) Following this logic is why everything is out sourced to China, why meat packing plants have all moved to states that don't care about unsafe conditions for workers and why companies continue to pollute because the fines are cheaper than doing anything about it. Your business decisions have repercussions for your community and the world and ignoring that is morally irresponsible. I own my a small fabrication company and I face these decisions everyday. It effects my profit but I won't go to Home Depot, I buy hardware from a local firm and use lumber that is recycled or harvested sustainably by a farmer in SE Wisconson
mfa cycle factory said:
Your avg consumers do not know anything about bikes.
Lbs are a resource for all cyclists, not just the ignorant. I've been building bikes and wheelsets for twenty some years and I still appreciate the help I get occasionally. Even full time mechanics benefit for one anothers knowledge. At good shops professionals have access to training most of us don't. Sram classes on rebuilding suspension forks, Serotta fit certification or an old timer showing them how to rebuild a Campy shifter. I love my fixed gear but the cycling world is a lot bigger than fixed conversions. If we let the bike shops wither we'll have a cycling monoculture of only superficial bicycle knowledge.
I'm not arguing against that,but it is not limited to that.LBS is a great place to learn from and be a part of,the good ones that is.
I don't depend on any single source completely...If I can't get it online, I can get it from my LBS,and vice versa...
Two books and an online site taught me everything I know:
The Bicycle Manual by Eugene Sloan,The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt, and mister
Sheldon Brown.....I live and die by their words and practices,and they chanted the same things that I'm chanting .,,,Learn how to do things yourself and not be so dependent on your LBS..
options
options
options
research
research
research
never settle for less,settle for best.....
JKH said:mfa cycle factory said: Dollar and cents(sense)= good business(key word)
Following this logic is why everything is out sourced to China, why meat packing plants have all moved to states that don't care about unsafe conditions for workers and why companies continue to pollute because the fines are cheaper than doing anything about it. Your business decisions have repercussions for your community and the world and ignoring that is morally irresponsible. I own my a small fabrication company and I face these decisions everyday. It effects my profit but I won't go to Home Depot, I buy hardware from a local firm and use lumber that is recycled or harvested sustainably by a farmer in SE Wisconson
mfa cycle factory said:
Your avg consumers do not know anything about bikes.
Lbs are a resource for all cyclists, not just the ignorant. I've been building bikes and wheelsets for twenty some years and I still appreciate the help I get occasionally. Even full time mechanics benefit for one anothers knowledge. At good shops professionals have access to training most of us don't. Sram classes on rebuilding suspension forks, Serotta fit certification or an old timer showing them how to rebuild a Campy shifter. I love my fixed gear but the cycling world is a lot bigger than fixed conversions. If we let the bike shops wither we'll have a cycling monoculture of only superficial bicycle knowledge.
You're not making sense... you already said you are against buying from the LBS based on the percentages that you posted! You have made it clear in your own words that you shop by price and not by level of service. Let me ask you this, and please answer this one for me: That LBS, the one that is a great place to learn from and be a part of, how do you expect it to stay open to be all of that if you do not support it financially? Even if the repairs of those less knowledgeable then you alone can support it without your purchases is it really right for you to enjoy the community and knowledge that others are paying to support?
Where did Sheldon Brown work? What supported him and let him enjoy life and learn enough to provide you with that info?
A LOCAL BIKE SHOP!!!
I am pretty sure he wanted people to rely less on their LBS for repairs but to still make purchases from them. In fact, I am not 100% sure but I swear it was on Mr. Browns site that I saw the quote that you should make a purchase every time you are in your LBS, especially if you asked a question. It was either there or Rivendell...
mfa cycle factory said:I'm not arguing against that,but it is not limited to that.LBS is a great place to learn from and be a part of,the good ones that is.
I don't depend on any single source completely...If I can't get it online, I can get it from my LBS,and vice versa... Two books and an online site taught me everything I know: The Bicycle Manual by Eugene Sloan,The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt, and mister
Sheldon Brown.....I live and die by their words and practices,and they chanted the same things that I'm chanting .,,,Learn how to do things yourself and not be so dependent on your LBS..
options
options
options
research
research
research
never settle for less,settle for best.....
JKH said:mfa cycle factory said: Dollar and cents(sense)= good business(key word)
Following this logic is why everything is out sourced to China, why meat packing plants have all moved to states that don't care about unsafe conditions for workers and why companies continue to pollute because the fines are cheaper than doing anything about it. Your business decisions have repercussions for your community and the world and ignoring that is morally irresponsible. I own my a small fabrication company and I face these decisions everyday. It effects my profit but I won't go to Home Depot, I buy hardware from a local firm and use lumber that is recycled or harvested sustainably by a farmer in SE Wisconson mfa cycle factory said: Your avg consumers do not know anything about bikes.
Lbs are a resource for all cyclists, not just the ignorant. I've been building bikes and wheelsets for twenty some years and I still appreciate the help I get occasionally. Even full time mechanics benefit for one anothers knowledge. At good shops professionals have access to training most of us don't. Sram classes on rebuilding suspension forks, Serotta fit certification or an old timer showing them how to rebuild a Campy shifter. I love my fixed gear but the cycling world is a lot bigger than fixed conversions. If we let the bike shops wither we'll have a cycling monoculture of only superficial bicycle knowledge.
which is why Sheldon Brown was a great man....Regardless of the fact that he owned a shop or was a mechanic, he taught and provided information so that people wouldn't have to depend on bike shop all the time.
He would even provide information on how to make homemade tools to do the job of tools that are sold in bike shops..
cmon, you just provided me with ammo.
There is no right or wrong way here. I'm not against LBS and not limited to them either.
I stand independent as a free thinker and conceptualist,and I want all to grow and benefit...I would never limit someone to my services and I wouldn't want to be limited to someone's services.
I only work on and convert cycles to single speeds or fixies. However, for people that want other kinds of cycles, I send them to the LBS.
notoriousDUG said:You're not making sense... you already said you are against buying from the LBS based on the percentages that you posted! You have made it clear in your own words that you shop by price and not by level of service. Let me ask you this, and please answer this one for me: That LBS, the one that is a great place to learn from and be a part of, how do you expect it to stay open to be all of that if you do not support it financially? Even if the repairs of those less knowledgeable then you alone can support it without your purchases is it really right for you to enjoy the community and knowledge that others are paying to support?
Where did Sheldon Brown work? What supported him and let him enjoy life and learn enough to provide you with that info?
A LOCAL BIKE SHOP!!!
I am pretty sure he wanted people to rely less on their LBS for repairs but to still make purchases from them. In fact, I am not 100% sure but I swear it was on Mr. Browns site that I saw the quote that you should make a purchase every time you are in your LBS, especially if you asked a question. It was either there or Rivendell...
mfa cycle factory said:I'm not arguing against that,but it is not limited to that.LBS is a great place to learn from and be a part of,the good ones that is.
I don't depend on any single source completely...If I can't get it online, I can get it from my LBS,and vice versa...
Two books and an online site taught me everything I know: The Bicycle Manual by Eugene Sloan,The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt, and mister
Sheldon Brown.....I live and die by their words and practices,and they chanted the same things that I'm chanting .,,,Learn how to do things yourself and not be so dependent on your LBS..
options
options
options
research
research
research
never settle for less,settle for best.....
JKH said:mfa cycle factory said: Dollar and cents(sense)= good business(key word)
Following this logic is why everything is out sourced to China, why meat packing plants have all moved to states that don't care about unsafe conditions for workers and why companies continue to pollute because the fines are cheaper than doing anything about it. Your business decisions have repercussions for your community and the world and ignoring that is morally irresponsible. I own my a small fabrication company and I face these decisions everyday. It effects my profit but I won't go to Home Depot, I buy hardware from a local firm and use lumber that is recycled or harvested sustainably by a farmer in SE Wisconson
mfa cycle factory said: Your avg consumers do not know anything about bikes.
Lbs are a resource for all cyclists, not just the ignorant. I've been building bikes and wheelsets for twenty some years and I still appreciate the help I get occasionally. Even full time mechanics benefit for one anothers knowledge. At good shops professionals have access to training most of us don't. Sram classes on rebuilding suspension forks, Serotta fit certification or an old timer showing them how to rebuild a Campy shifter. I love my fixed gear but the cycling world is a lot bigger than fixed conversions. If we let the bike shops wither we'll have a cycling monoculture of only superficial bicycle knowledge.
I notice you choose to ignore the question I asked you to answer...
He gave people the skills to not depend on shops and showed them how to make tools not so they could abandon the LBS that helped them out when they where newbies but in order to help open their horizons and turn them from a service customer into a parts customer.
There is a difference between not being dependent on something and abandoning it.
I only gave you ammo if you are so stuck on your point that you can find proof of it in everything you read.
There may not be a right and a wrong but there is a locally and socially conscious and a locally and socially ignorant.
If you are not against the LBS then why are you only making 15% of your purchases there?
no one is limiting you. My point is that if you are not going to patronize the LBS with most of your purchases then you should not stop in to reap the benefits of the LBS. You don't buy most of your stuff there then stop asking questions, accepting freebies, test riding bikes, hanging out or otherwise enjoying the benefits to the consumer and community the LBS provides.
You only do conversions? What, real bike repair is to hard for you? You're a 'cycle factory' but you can't install a derailleur or build a multi-speed bike?
mfa cycle factory said:which is why Sheldon Brown was a great man....Regardless of the fact that he owned a shop or was a mechanic, he taught and provided information so that people wouldn't have to depend on bike shop all the time.
He would even provide information on how to make homemade tools to do the job of tools that are sold in bike shops..
cmon, you just provided me with ammo.
There is no right or wrong way here. I'm not against LBS and not limited to them either.
I stand independent as a free thinker and conceptualist,and I want all to grow and benefit...I would never limit someone to my services and I wouldn't want to be limited to someone's services.
I only work on and convert cycles to single speeds or fixies. However, for people that want other kinds of cycles, I send them to the LBS.
notoriousDUG said:You're not making sense... you already said you are against buying from the LBS based on the percentages that you posted! You have made it clear in your own words that you shop by price and not by level of service. Let me ask you this, and please answer this one for me: That LBS, the one that is a great place to learn from and be a part of, how do you expect it to stay open to be all of that if you do not support it financially? Even if the repairs of those less knowledgeable then you alone can support it without your purchases is it really right for you to enjoy the community and knowledge that others are paying to support?
Where did Sheldon Brown work? What supported him and let him enjoy life and learn enough to provide you with that info?
A LOCAL BIKE SHOP!!!
I am pretty sure he wanted people to rely less on their LBS for repairs but to still make purchases from them. In fact, I am not 100% sure but I swear it was on Mr. Browns site that I saw the quote that you should make a purchase every time you are in your LBS, especially if you asked a question. It was either there or Rivendell...
mfa cycle factory said:I'm not arguing against that,but it is not limited to that.LBS is a great place to learn from and be a part of,the good ones that is.
I don't depend on any single source completely...If I can't get it online, I can get it from my LBS,and vice versa...
Two books and an online site taught me everything I know: The Bicycle Manual by Eugene Sloan,The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt, and mister
Sheldon Brown.....I live and die by their words and practices,and they chanted the same things that I'm chanting .,,,Learn how to do things yourself and not be so dependent on your LBS..
options
options
options
research
research
research
never settle for less,settle for best.....
JKH said:mfa cycle factory said: Dollar and cents(sense)= good business(key word)
Following this logic is why everything is out sourced to China, why meat packing plants have all moved to states that don't care about unsafe conditions for workers and why companies continue to pollute because the fines are cheaper than doing anything about it. Your business decisions have repercussions for your community and the world and ignoring that is morally irresponsible. I own my a small fabrication company and I face these decisions everyday. It effects my profit but I won't go to Home Depot, I buy hardware from a local firm and use lumber that is recycled or harvested sustainably by a farmer in SE Wisconson
mfa cycle factory said: Your avg consumers do not know anything about bikes.
Lbs are a resource for all cyclists, not just the ignorant. I've been building bikes and wheelsets for twenty some years and I still appreciate the help I get occasionally. Even full time mechanics benefit for one anothers knowledge. At good shops professionals have access to training most of us don't. Sram classes on rebuilding suspension forks, Serotta fit certification or an old timer showing them how to rebuild a Campy shifter. I love my fixed gear but the cycling world is a lot bigger than fixed conversions. If we let the bike shops wither we'll have a cycling monoculture of only superficial bicycle knowledge.
To everyone, including the 2 who hijacked this thread, thanks for your input.
First, believe me, I understand the issues regarding the stand alone LBS vs. online. I worked retail for far too long, was in management when our competitors started big box selling and undercutting our prices. All we could do was offer good customer service. So we'd get the people who'd come in with questions, get our answers and then go to our competitor who was 2 dollars cheaper. I understand why the LBS might have higher prices. But to that end, I haven't had the best customer service experiences at the LBS that I've been to.
Second, my issue with the LBS that I've been to is that overall, they've been intimidating and/or they've never had the part I need when I want it. And that's after calling around a few places. It's like I'm dealing with the mechanic when I had a car as far as getting knowledge as to the best way to maintain/fix stuff. A few of the shops I've been to have very little in the way of tools. And as much as I'd like to get the really nice tools, I can't. But neither do I want the tools that are so cheap they're not going to last. So I am kinda looking for a good bike shop that tends to have a good overall selection so as to offer a variety of prices.
I've got a nice Bell multi tool as well as my own small general tool kits. I think I am pretty set on allen wrenches hehe. I've noticed that there are some tools that probably make certain jobs much easier if you've got them - so although I could probably figure out a way to pop the pin on a chain, I'm sure it's much easier just to use the chain tool (or thingamajig in my modern parlance).
Thanks again.
For the most part I think the argument between you two is innane and pointless but that's how all internet arguments are! Yay! But Dug let me question you on one of your quotes...
"You are what is one of the most annoying of all people out there when it comes to people who own shops or provide a legitimate service; you are the jerk who is running a pretend business out of your basement and taking money from the hands of people who have a legit business."
What defines a legit business? Is it a license from the state? The employment of people? Cred in among other retailers? What?
Seems like you have a bit of elitism in ya.
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