Winter 2015- who's still riding?

Traffic 'round these parts dropped off pretty dramatically a few weeks ago... hard to tell from the "I rode today" thread who's still riding, as one would have to conclude that Gene is the only one out there most days by reading it....

Who's sticking it out and plans to continue to ride pretty much every day regardless of weather?

(Was winter 2013;   2014 starts on p. 36;   2015 starts on p. 61)

 

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Permalink Reply by Steve Weeks on January 27, 2013 at 5:16am

Rich, I would think that maximizing traction would be more important on a recumbent. Isn't it harder, if not impossible, to put a foot down quickly to stop a spill? (Not being a 'bent rider, I don't know.) Another brand of studded tires you can look at is Nokian. I have those on my mountain bike. Recently I was out riding on a frozen lake... lots of fun if the ice is thick enough! (See image from a couple wintes ago; also an image of a trail that is easily ridden with studs.) Since I don't ride this bike every day, I expect the tires to last 5 to 10 years. FWIW, I'd stay away from tires with *steel* studs; they are cheaper, but the studs wear much faster.

Rinsing the bike daily wouldn't be easy. It isn't necessary for the bike, which has most parts made of aluminum, plastic and stainless steel. I've replaced a number of steel parts, such as brake pivots, with titanium ones that don't rust. I do a major service at the beginning and end of the winter season (lubing the internal hub, greasing just about anything that moves).

The tires don't fail from salt on the sidewalls. Salt gets into the interfaces between the studs and the rubber. The studs themselves (tungsten carbide) are not affected by salt. However, the little "hats" that hold the studs are made of some kind of ferrous metal... which corrodes in the salt. The corrosion products  must be somewhat abrasive, because the wide bases of the stud holders eventually wear through the tire carcass and then you start to see flats. It would not be possible to rinse of the salt from the spaces around the studs without actually removing the studs... which is impossible: each 20" Schwalbe tire has 168 studs, and each 26" Nokian has almost 300! This winter I am riding on 2 tires that show some internal signs that the studs are close to the inside. I have installed "Mr. Tuffy" tire liners to see if I can extend the life of these tires. So far, so good. But these, like all tires and brake pads, are "consumable" items.

I actually do have two sets of wheels ("Winter" and "Summer"), and I change them twice a year. The rear has an internally-geared hub and a roller brake, so there are 2 cables and a torque link to remove. The front is a dynohub, so there are wires to unplug and reattach. Plus both wheels are secured with nuts, not quick-releases. Since I typically catch a 7 AM train and get up at 5:30 anyway, I'd have to get up at least an hour earlier... just to see if I need to swap wheels. <_<  That's not going to happen, I am afraid. Also, what happens if I'm at work when the bad weather hits? Or, as sometimes happens, the streets are clear at home (50 miles away) but icy in the city? Sure, I could take the "L" to/from Union Station, walk or get a cab. But it's easier for me to just leave the tires on. I like to just pull the bike out in the morning and go (past my neighbors sitting in their cars warming up ^_^ ).

Rich Evans said:

Thanks very much for the review, Steve.  I've been looking at those.  I commute on a mountan bike, but now you've got me thinking these might be great for my recumbent, to get more winter use out of it. 

Since you're on a folder, I'm wondering if maybe you could extend your tire (and component) life even further, by rinsing daily (that Dahon could go into the shower nicely), and throwing some armor-all on the sidewalls now and then. 

Maybe ultimately apply those savings to an extra set of wheels, which you COULD quite easily swap out after looking out the window?  
 

Attachments:
Permalink Reply by Julie Aberman (Hochstadter) on January 27, 2013 at 5:32am

anyone out yet today.  Is it slippery

Permalink Reply by Rich Evans on January 27, 2013 at 6:06am

Steve, I've just been getting started on my recumbent, but would agree that traction is probably even more important (especially a short wheelbase/underseat steered model) than on an upright -- but that's more because of the 'bent's "inherent squirrelyness" in handling, particularly at low speeds. Putting a foot out doesn't seem that much tougher and, if spilled, the fall is far shorter. 

That said, I see your point now, re: wheel swapout.  I had assumed you had a derailleur, but wiith a coaster brake/internal hub to deal with, that would be a pain in the patoot. 

I still think you might benefit from rinsing.  Aluminum doesn't rust, but it does corrode.  Also, because salt is so soluble in (particularly warm) water, it would probably flush away more of that stuff that builds up at the tire/stud interface than you might think; even more importantly, it may get out some of the salt in the stud/ferrous interface you mention -- with dissimilar metals there, you probably have a distinct galvanic gradient, that you don't want to tone down as much as possible .  A quick water wash will also get rid of a lot of that grit tht tends to turn all your moving parts into little "component grinders." 

Sounds like you take Metra in to the City, and commute from there.  Great use of the Dahon -- I'm trying to convince my brother to use his the same way.  :)

   
 
Steve Weeks, DDS said:

Rich, I would think that maximizing traction would be more important on a recumbent. Isn't it harder, if not impossible, to put a foot down quickly to stop a spill? (Not being a 'bent rider, I don't know.) Another brand of studded tires you can look at is Nokian. I have those on my mountain bike. Recently I was out riding on a frozen lake... lots of fun if the ice is thick enough! (See image from a couple wintes ago; also an image of a trail that is easily ridden with studs.) Since I don't ride this bike every day, I expect the tires to last 5 to 10 years. FWIW, I'd stay away from tires with *steel* studs; they are cheaper, but the studs wear much faster.

Rinsing the bike daily wouldn't be easy. It isn't necessary for the bike, which has most parts made of aluminum, plastic and stainless steel. I've replaced a number of steel parts, such as brake pivots, with titanium ones that don't rust. I do a major service at the beginning and end of the winter season (lubing the internal hub, greasing just about anything that moves).

The tires don't fail from salt on the sidewalls. Salt gets into the interfaces between the studs and the rubber. The studs themselves (tungsten carbide) are not affected by salt. However, the little "hats" that hold the studs are made of some kind of ferrous metal... which corrodes in the salt. The corrosion products  must be somewhat abrasive, because the wide bases of the stud holders eventually wear through the tire carcass and then you start to see flats. It would not be possible to rinse of the salt from the spaces around the studs without actually removing the studs... which is impossible: each 20" Schwalbe tire has 168 studs, and each 26" Nokian has almost 300! This winter I am riding on 2 tires that show some internal signs that the studs are close to the inside. I have installed "Mr. Tuffy" tire liners to see if I can extend the life of these tires. So far, so good. But these, like all tires and brake pads, are "consumable" items.

I actually do have two sets of wheels ("Winter" and "Summer"), and I change them twice a year. The rear has an internally-geared hub and a roller brake, so there are 2 cables and a torque link to remove. The front is a dynohub, so there are wires to unplug and reattach. Plus both wheels are secured with nuts, not quick-releases. Since I typically catch a 7 AM train and get up at 5:30 anyway, I'd have to get up at least an hour earlier... just to see if I need to swap wheels. <_<  That's not going to happen, I am afraid. Also, what happens if I'm at work when the bad weather hits? Or, as sometimes happens, the streets are clear at home (50 miles away) but icy in the city? Sure, I could take the "L" to/from Union Station, walk or get a cab. But it's easier for me to just leave the tires on. I like to just pull the bike out in the morning and go (past my neighbors sitting in their cars warming up ^_^ ).

Rich Evans said:

Thanks very much for the review, Steve.  I've been looking at those.  I commute on a mountan bike, but now you've got me thinking these might be great for my recumbent, to get more winter use out of it. 

Since you're on a folder, I'm wondering if maybe you could extend your tire (and component) life even further, by rinsing daily (that Dahon could go into the shower nicely), and throwing some armor-all on the sidewalls now and then. 

Maybe ultimately apply those savings to an extra set of wheels, which you COULD quite easily swap out after looking out the window?  
 

Permalink Reply by David P. on January 27, 2013 at 9:25am

My girlfriend just rode from my house in Avondale to Ipsento and says yes; I'll be leaving in a few minutes and so will be careful!

Julie Hochstadter said:

anyone out yet today.  Is it slippery

Permalink Reply by Steve Weeks on January 27, 2013 at 9:52am

Good point. My ride is on the shorter side. METRA is about a mile away from my house, and it's about 3 miles from the Western Avenue station to work. Then it's about 2 miles to Union Station, and another mile to home. So, about 7 miles in all. I have done longer stretches on occasion: Union Station to McCormick Place, Western Avenue station to Watertower Place, for example. The longest ride on my folder with studded tires was about 10 miles (I did a century on the folder a few years ago... in the summer!). But the distance isn't important to me; in this weather I would choose to have the studded tires on, and if the ride were too long, well, I'd find another way to get around.

This particular winter, there have only been a couple or three days when the tires really were worth it. There may be more (like tomorrow, maybe). But in past winters, there have been many days when I was glad I had them on the bike. Future winters... who can say?

Ride safe!

Steve

h' 1.0 said:

This is where we get back into not knowing if someone's advice is useful to us because we don't know anything about their riding and how their commute compares to our own.  If Steve only uses his studded tires for a short ride to the Metra and a short ride from the Metra to his workplace, than I can see why he would feel so positively about them even when we only have 2-3 days in an entire winter that they're useful. This whole time I've been assuming he was riding several hours a day on them on dry pavement...?

Permalink Reply by Steve Weeks on January 27, 2013 at 10:05am

Heh... I'm more likely to get hurt patting myself on the back than falling on the ice. ;-)

Besides, burning off a few extra calories helps me keep my boyish figure. 8-O

Steve

h' 1.0 said:

But.... here ya go.  Look out the window and don't hurt yourself with the back-patting :-)

Permalink Reply by Andrew Bedno on January 27, 2013 at 10:44am

Jera-n-I did 20+ miles to the ice/snow carving show at Navy Pier Saturday. LFT was salted and dry and windless. At about 22F I considered it brutally cold, but bike winter and marauder training made it a peak invigorating experience.  Just glad I don't have to do that daily.

Permalink Reply by Julie Aberman (Hochstadter) on January 27, 2013 at 10:45am

It's starting to get messy out there.  No solid ice yet up North on main streets, but that may change if the temp drops a bit more.  I took it slow and pedestrians esp were very respectful of me.

Permalink Reply by Andrew Bedno on January 27, 2013 at 10:56am

Oh and, since y'all seem to be talking some tech here, my bike's just an ordinary fixie with basic treaded road tires, and I've had no complaints ever in winter. Through snow, ice, several santa rampages.  I don't even change inflation (maybe 90psi).  It's out a few times a week year-round and I've never even considered corrosion before I saw it mentioned here.  Gosh I swear by that KHS.  Point being, I think it's important to not get winter newbies worried about tire and frame and fender pre-requisites.  I don't know however, if maybe fixie inherently performs well in winter.

Permalink Reply by Steve Weeks on January 27, 2013 at 10:59am

Rotate clockwise 90 degrees to see my expression. My boyish figure looks nothing like that. ;-)

Steve

h' 1.0 said:

Let's keep it clean here, shall we?

Steve Weeks, DDS said:

 8-O

Permalink Reply by Steve Weeks on January 27, 2013 at 11:05am

I have heard ( SHELDON BROWN ) that fixed-gear bikes do well under low-traction conditions.

Steve

Andrew Bedno said:

Oh and, since y'all seem to be talking some tech here, my bike's just an ordinary fixie with basic treaded road tires, and I've had no complaints ever in winter. Through snow, ice, several santa rampages.  I don't even change inflation (maybe 90psi).  It's out a few times a week year-round and I've never even considered corrosion before I saw it mentioned here.  Gosh I swear by that KHS.  Point being, I think it's important to not get winter newbies worried about tire and frame and fender pre-requisites.  I don't know however, if maybe fixie inherently performs well in winter.

Permalink Reply by Paul Michael Ignacio on January 27, 2013 at 2:14pm

Welp, the ride home was a non-eventful one for me.  Rode through slush much more than ice, but was still cautious and slowed to an 'outrigger' stop at every red.  The most adversity I faced was when I was actually home, and the latch on the metal gate was iced over!  I had to hammer it open with a stray rock.  It was cool finishing the ride with thunder and lightning overhead, though.

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