What does everyone do or say to 'bad' cyclists?? Anything?

People do all kinds of ridiculous stuff on the road - we all know it.

It stinks that, as cyclists, we often pay the price no matter who is really at fault.

I feel very strongly that motorists should be held to a higher level of liability, given that cars kill so many people every day and cyclists are the most vulnerable to this. So, it makes sense that we can 'get away' with stuff that cars cant.

I also have zero issues about pointing out awful motorist behavior directly to their faces - yelling, kicking, and even sometimes spitting all fall within the realm of acceptable behavior from my own prospective when it comes to people who choose to drive their cars in a way that hugely risks my safety (and life!).

No one likes to be told that their behavior is wrong - even when it clearly is. People don't learn this way. It's only natural to become defensive and angry.

When it comes to motorists - I don't care. Let them get angry. Maybe they'll think about it again later and perhaps not do that again.

so... here's the huge BUT....

What about cyclists?? I believe that it's totally okay to treat stop signs like yields and red lights like stop signs. I'll even do a bit of slow, cautious sidewalk or wrong way riding to save myself a trip around the block every now and then.

But I'm talking about those who dart through intersections, wrong way riders in all black with no lights or helmets, cyclists who zip past us within inches and don't announce it, bad attempts at track stands at intersections confusing motorists... Sometimes, it's also just an FYI - like locking only the front wheel, wearing a helmet backwards, untied shoelaces, dying blinkies...

This stuff does no benefit to city cycling whatsoever. In fact, I often worry that I now have to pass all those motorists that the 'bad cyclist' who darted in front of me has just pissed off. I cringe nearly every day at how many bike-hating motorists are created by us.

Let's not give them a reason to hate us, huh?!?

Even when it's just a backwards helmet or bikes locked with only a front wheel, etc... That person won't be a cyclist for long. Their bad experience is clearly just around the corner, and they'll be back in a car before the fall, telling all their friends that they tried bicycling... and it was awful.

SO...

While it's still early in the season, this is the time of year that all this stuff is at it's peak.

How do you call out 'bad' cyclists?? It's just as important that we say something to them as it is that we do it to motorists... if not more so.

Sometimes, I just call out, "Please ride safely!", but that's a bit silly. Like I said, no one likes to be told that what they're doing is wrong - people get angry and defensive.

What's the proper way to encourage folks to make the right decisions?? What does everyone here do or say?

Thanks!!

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Permalink Reply by Eric R on June 5, 2014 at 11:31am

LOL. I've yelled "keep moving to the back" on a few packed buses before (Yours truly, That Guy). What? There was like five standing spaces back there and nobody was listening to the driver! :)

I've told a few fellow cyclists to "git it" when they have passed me on the right with little space and/or as we approached a row of parked cars after an intersection.

GIT IT! As in, you better get to that leading position quickly because I am not slowing down.


Adam Z said:

What if bus riders were as uptight as some bike riders?

"I feel that showing up on the bus without exact change is going to reflect poorly on all of us other bus riders.  It's no wonder drivers hate us so much."

This is supposed to be fun, right?

Permalink Reply by Mike Keating on June 5, 2014 at 3:54pm

"Rogue Cyclists" are unfortunately the basis for many arguments against more infrastructure specific to bicycles and more bicycle-centric policies. The argument is unfortunate and unfair. No one says that a new highway shouldn't be built because of the number of cars that speed, or roll through stop signs, or speed up at an intersection instead of slowing down to try and "beat" a red light.

But perception becomes reality to many people. As long as there are bicyclists who stand out from the rest of traffic I fear the misguided notion that "all bicyclists ride like maniacs" will continue. That's why whenever I see a bicyclist being a scofflaw I simply and plainly note what they are doing wrong. So if I see a bicyclist riding the wrong way down the street, I'll calmly mention "you're going the wrong way." I've gotten a few looks, but nothing worse. Facts are facts.

Permalink Reply by Reboot Oxnard on June 6, 2014 at 12:28am

Though no one likes to be told that their behavior is wrong - even when it clearly is - I have no problem pointing out awful cyclist behavior directly to their faces. No yelling, no kicking and certainly no spitting in your face but your behavior is unacceptable. Your own statement contains the internal inconsistency that points out why it's wrong:

I also have zero issues about pointing out awful motorist behavior directly to their faces - yelling, kicking, and even sometimes spitting all fall within the realm of acceptable behavior from my own prospective when it comes to people who choose to drive their cars in a way that hugely risks my safety (and life!).

No one likes to be told that their behavior is wrong - even when it clearly is. People don't learn this way. It's only natural to become defensive and angry.

When it comes to motorists - I don't care. Let them get angry. Maybe they'll think about it again later and perhaps not do that again.

You know they won't learn if you treat them like this and you don't care? WTF? You aren't thinking and you certainly aren't trying to teach or lead. You're indulging in the non-cathartic emotions of road rage and trying to escalate the tension instead of behaving like an adult. If you survive the fight you are trying to provoke, you'll blame the motorist; in the meantime you are solidifying the 'cyclists are anti-social miscreants' perspective that hurts everyone on two wheels.

There are just as many assholes on bikes as there are in cars. Don't be one of them.

Permalink Reply by Eric R on June 6, 2014 at 2:49am

:)
h' 1.0 said:

There are some valid reasons people might not want to.

When I have my instrument on the wheel well, I'm not going to be separated from it.

When my bike is on the rack I'm staying in front.

My stop to disembark on 2 frequently traveled bus route is often missed by drivers unless I'm up front to communicate verbally where I need to get off.

Anyone screaming at me and others to move back will be assumed to either not be very bright, or have mental health issues.

Eric R said:

LOL. I've yelled "keep moving to the back" on a few packed buses before (Yours truly, That Guy). What? There was like five standing spaces back there and nobody was listening to the driver! :)

I've told a few fellow cyclists to "git it" when they have passed me on the right with little space and/or as we approached a row of parked cars after an intersection.

GIT IT! As in, you better get to that leading position quickly because I am not slowing down.


Adam Z said:

What if bus riders were as uptight as some bike riders?

"I feel that showing up on the bus without exact change is going to reflect poorly on all of us other bus riders.  It's no wonder drivers hate us so much."

This is supposed to be fun, right?

Permalink Reply by Chris LaFrombois (8.5 mi - o.w.) on June 6, 2014 at 7:28am

I yelled at two cyclists this morning for shoaling. Admittedly, I could have handled it way better, but for some reason, this season's biggest pet peeve of mine is shoaling.

I had passed both individuals a mile back and they only reason they caught up was because of a red light. A woman and a cruiser and a guy on a road bike. Both went directly in front of me at a light with no other bikers around.

After I yelled, I went on my way and at the next light I was stopped at, the guy pulled up and asked me why I yelled and that I scared the lady and needed to calm down. True, I should have been more calm. He also said "the light was about to turn green." Yeah, I know it was, and he should have known that I was moving faster and for him to pull in front was poor road etiquette.

I honestly do not know how people justify that behavior. You wouldn't cut in line anywhere else, right? This is how I look at a situation: if I'm going to potentially impede another cyclist (or car for that matter), I stay behind. You don't know the skill level or speed of a rider when you pull up to an intersection (sometimes you can tell by bike style and clothing - but that's not always accurate). If I end up being faster, I'll pass them and give them the courtesy of an "on your left" and go about my ride. If not, cool, I finally have someone to draft (it's lonely in the front :)

It's mornings like this morning that make me half wish for much lower temperatures.

Permalink Reply by We all have an inner Beast... on June 12, 2014 at 6:34am
First of all, and I don't want to sound too stupid, what is shoaling ? I know what salmoning is.

Secondly, i do occasionally break some rules (using a stop sign or stop light as a "pause/slow down" sign, passing people on the right when they are trying to crowd me out into the street in a bike lane while they are riding a step through with baskets in the front and back coming off of the sidewalk wearing a sun hat and Dr. BEATS headphones with music so loud I could almost drown out the boom - boom - boom coming from the hooptie with the 22 in tires.) So I am not innocent.
So, I apologize.
Permalink Reply by Chris LaFrombois (8.5 mi - o.w.) on June 12, 2014 at 8:19am

Shoaling is when you come up to a light and another rider is already there, stopped, and you go around them and stop in front of them waiting for the same light - thus potentially impeding them when the light turns green. You don't know how that person rides. I know that you can sometimes have a really good idea about their riding by what type of bike and dress they have, but that's not always the best giveaway.

Proper etiquette in that situation is to stop behind them and wait for the light to change. If you are faster, you will pass them and hopefully they will offer the same courtesy to you at the next light.

Shoaling also happens when you've been passed by a rider who is traveling at a speed faster than you and they get stopped at a light and you do the same thing. Or, you run the light and again, because you aren't going faster than them, they have to pass you, thus putting them in danger because they have to move out into the driving lane.

That's why I always use the "am I potentially impeding" someone rule (as stated in my previous post). It works almost 100 percent of the time :)

We all have an inner Beast... said:

First of all, and I don't want to sound too stupid, what is shoaling ? I know what salmoning is.

Secondly, i do occasionally break some rules (using a stop sign or stop light as a "pause/slow down" sign, passing people on the right when they are trying to crowd me out into the street in a bike lane while they are riding a step through with baskets in the front and back coming off of the sidewalk wearing a sun hat and Dr. BEATS headphones with music so loud I could almost drown out the boom - boom - boom coming from the hooptie with the 22 in tires.) So I am not innocent.
So, I apologize.
Permalink Reply by John Wilson 6.0 on June 12, 2014 at 9:44am

On a handful of occasions when I've been shoaled by the same cyclist over the course of two or three intersections, I'll eventually snark at them with a "Well, it's a good thing you keep pulling ahead of me at these intersections!" as I, myself, am passing them for the third or fourth time. It's passive aggressive I suppose, but it feels better than shouting at them.

Chris LaFrombois (8.5 mi - o.w.) said:

I yelled at two cyclists this morning for shoaling. Admittedly, I could have handled it way better, but for some reason, this season's biggest pet peeve of mine is shoaling.

I had passed both individuals a mile back and they only reason they caught up was because of a red light. A woman and a cruiser and a guy on a road bike. Both went directly in front of me at a light with no other bikers around.

After I yelled, I went on my way and at the next light I was stopped at, the guy pulled up and asked me why I yelled and that I scared the lady and needed to calm down. True, I should have been more calm. He also said "the light was about to turn green." Yeah, I know it was, and he should have known that I was moving faster and for him to pull in front was poor road etiquette.

I honestly do not know how people justify that behavior. You wouldn't cut in line anywhere else, right? This is how I look at a situation: if I'm going to potentially impede another cyclist (or car for that matter), I stay behind. You don't know the skill level or speed of a rider when you pull up to an intersection (sometimes you can tell by bike style and clothing - but that's not always accurate). If I end up being faster, I'll pass them and give them the courtesy of an "on your left" and go about my ride. If not, cool, I finally have someone to draft (it's lonely in the front :)

It's mornings like this morning that make me half wish for much lower temperatures.

Permalink Reply by Michelle Milham on June 12, 2014 at 10:18am

Red light shoalers drive me NUTS. I'm STILL faster than you, even if I don't blow most red lights. I'm gonna catch up. 

Permalink Reply by Chris LaFrombois (8.5 mi - o.w.) on June 12, 2014 at 10:29am

I've been getting really good about stopping at red lights and stop signs (I'm trying to be a better road citizen - although I do still have some missteps :) and even then, like you (Michelle), I'll keep passing the same people that blow through the lights completely. I'm a fast rider (for a commuter) and I will most likely pass you (in the global sense) again.

John, if the person does it once/twice, I try to let it slide, after the third time, you will get no more "on the left" from me and possibly the passive/aggressive approach. I know that sounds harsh and potentially dangerous, but I do give the rider room, I'm not going to buzz them.



Michelle Milham said:

Red light shoalers drive me NUTS. I'm STILL faster than you, even if I don't blow most red lights. I'm gonna catch up. 

Permalink Reply by Simon Phearson on June 12, 2014 at 11:23am

I get shoaled and passed by all kinds of red-light runners. I also get the type that passes just as the light is changing - so they're not running the red, but they're passing me just as I'm about to start up again. I'm also a fast commuter, so I'll often end up passing them. Fortunately, I only have to deal with it for a mile out of every commute, so I just shrug it off. It would probably drive me crazy if I had to deal with it the whole way. 

Chris LaFrombois (8.5 mi - o.w.) said:

I've been getting really good about stopping at red lights and stop signs (I'm trying to be a better road citizen - although I do still have some missteps :) and even then, like you (Michelle), I'll keep passing the same people that blow through the lights completely. I'm a fast rider (for a commuter) and I will most likely pass you (in the global sense) again.

John, if the person does it once/twice, I try to let it slide, after the third time, you will get no more "on the left" from me and possibly the passive/aggressive approach. I know that sounds harsh and potentially dangerous, but I do give the rider room, I'm not going to buzz them.



Michelle Milham said:

Red light shoalers drive me NUTS. I'm STILL faster than you, even if I don't blow most red lights. I'm gonna catch up. 

Permalink Reply by Irvin Steinert on June 13, 2014 at 3:26am

I believe all these issues are the "car" mentality that has been engrained in our society. For some reason, "what we can get away with" is considered the plausible norm. Ever try to drive 55 on route 294? Even in the far right lane you will be cursed at and abused. As cyclists we don't have DL's or plates; because of this, our reduced impact in an impact and our self perceived infallibility we feel we can get away with more. Best way to go is to lead by example. Trying to teach others by yelling at them on the street has a low probability of success and might cause unwanted confrontations.

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