What does everyone do or say to 'bad' cyclists?? Anything?

People do all kinds of ridiculous stuff on the road - we all know it.

It stinks that, as cyclists, we often pay the price no matter who is really at fault.

I feel very strongly that motorists should be held to a higher level of liability, given that cars kill so many people every day and cyclists are the most vulnerable to this. So, it makes sense that we can 'get away' with stuff that cars cant.

I also have zero issues about pointing out awful motorist behavior directly to their faces - yelling, kicking, and even sometimes spitting all fall within the realm of acceptable behavior from my own prospective when it comes to people who choose to drive their cars in a way that hugely risks my safety (and life!).

No one likes to be told that their behavior is wrong - even when it clearly is. People don't learn this way. It's only natural to become defensive and angry.

When it comes to motorists - I don't care. Let them get angry. Maybe they'll think about it again later and perhaps not do that again.

so... here's the huge BUT....

What about cyclists?? I believe that it's totally okay to treat stop signs like yields and red lights like stop signs. I'll even do a bit of slow, cautious sidewalk or wrong way riding to save myself a trip around the block every now and then.

But I'm talking about those who dart through intersections, wrong way riders in all black with no lights or helmets, cyclists who zip past us within inches and don't announce it, bad attempts at track stands at intersections confusing motorists... Sometimes, it's also just an FYI - like locking only the front wheel, wearing a helmet backwards, untied shoelaces, dying blinkies...

This stuff does no benefit to city cycling whatsoever. In fact, I often worry that I now have to pass all those motorists that the 'bad cyclist' who darted in front of me has just pissed off. I cringe nearly every day at how many bike-hating motorists are created by us.

Let's not give them a reason to hate us, huh?!?

Even when it's just a backwards helmet or bikes locked with only a front wheel, etc... That person won't be a cyclist for long. Their bad experience is clearly just around the corner, and they'll be back in a car before the fall, telling all their friends that they tried bicycling... and it was awful.

SO...

While it's still early in the season, this is the time of year that all this stuff is at it's peak.

How do you call out 'bad' cyclists?? It's just as important that we say something to them as it is that we do it to motorists... if not more so.

Sometimes, I just call out, "Please ride safely!", but that's a bit silly. Like I said, no one likes to be told that what they're doing is wrong - people get angry and defensive.

What's the proper way to encourage folks to make the right decisions?? What does everyone here do or say?

Thanks!!

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on June 7, 2009 at 10:53am
I agree. I've dealt with this many times, especially on Halsted.

Wrong way riders on dark side streets riding with no lights get less friendly words.

BK said:
The most common thing that happens to me is cyclists going the wrong way in bike lanes. As we're meeting, I'll say something to the effect of "Wrong side." When I see them coming, I'll try to position myself in the lane so that the wrong-way cyclist is forced in to traffic or a stop.
Permalink Reply by niconico on June 7, 2009 at 11:18am
its a tricky thing... the whole "bad biker" thing. if you define a bad biker by the amount of traffic laws they break, i'm one of the worst. i break every traffic law there is several times a day working as a courier. i sometimes wonder if couriers followed every law (red lights, wrong ways, lanes, etc) would there be any point to using bikers for delivery? what makes me faster than traffic, is my ability to maneuver within it and around it as though none of it even existed. thats something that comes with riding in traffic all day, every day. however, i don't at all consider myself a bad biker. in fact, quite the opposite. i'm comfortable breaking the laws that i do because of my capability as a cyclist.

that being said, there's a lot of people who say the same about themselves, but have no idea. thats why its so tricky. i see idiots on fixed wheels who wanna play dangerous, but who aren't capable enough riders to pull some of the crap they do. and i'm not trying to single out the fixed wheel crowd, but there's a lot of people riding fixed cos they saw some youtube video or some messenger riding on a brakeless bike and decided they wanted to play the part.

to go on a bit of a tangent, brakeless fixed wheels got popular among messengers for the fact that they have very few parts to worry about. when you log as many miles as a courier does, shit breaks frequently and the less you have to worry about the better. for some people its about fashion, or adrenaline... and usually those are the people (usually not always) who don't know what the hell they are doing.

as far as what to say? what can you say? someone may see me riding downtown blowing lights and squeezing between moving vehicles and think i'm another idiot with no regard for others. i don't think i am. i guess you can only hope they will figure it out. there's been a lot of mistakes i've made as a cyclist, and usually the important ones only happen once. not that it should take a wreck to figure it out, but sometimes thats how it goes.
Permalink Reply by Greg Coleman on June 8, 2009 at 2:13am
As many of my friends know, I'm the first one to say something to drivers who do something dangerous. Hell, two weeks ago, when a guy blew a stop sign in front of one of the people I was riding with, causing an accident and then drove off, I was quick to chase him down and made sure he got out of the car. It's a matter of safety. I ride safely so that I don't cause myself or someone else to get hurt. I believe that everyone should do so.
If a driver does something inconsiderate, I'll give a little word to let them be aware that there are cyclists out there. If they do something that is dangerous, I will let them know EXACTLY what they did and how it could have (to put it bluntly) killed me.
The same goes for bikes. Period. Inconsiderate gets a word; dangerous gets a speech. When it comes down to it, people have to be held accountable for their actions and if I am put in a dangerous situation, I will let them know.
Ultimately, in my opinion, EVERYONE needs to drive/ride safely. I agree with the philosophy that cars bear the burden over all else and I take it a step further that cyclists need to be mindful of pedestrians. However, if a pedestrian steps into a bike lane without looking and gets hit because they are on the cell phone, it is their fault as much as a cyclist who blows a four way stop sign and gets clipped by the car who was rightfully coming out of their stop.
As for delivery, I would say it would be ideal to be nice about it, but in those situations where the adrenaline gets pumping, it can be hard not to get colorful and aggressive (believe me, I know; I'm a New Yorker who knows multiple and creative ways of dropping the f-bomb). The only thing I have to say about it is that if you ca catch yourself, end it on a positive; there's a much better chance of the criticism being heeded if the experience doesn't denigrate the offender, leaving them seething and looking for unconscious revenge.
Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on June 8, 2009 at 3:34am
I think the most important thing is being aware of ALL types of traffic around you, yielding the right of way when it's not your turn, and being proactive about avoiding accidents and avoiding being the cause of accidents, whether or not you follow every law. If you have a near miss or an accident, think about what, if anything, you could have done differently to avoid it.
Permalink Reply by cutifly on June 8, 2009 at 4:11am
How about that dumbaszz on the lakefront trail literally flying down a crowded Saturday afternoon path at 20+ MPH on his $3000 road bike and his nice tight spandex outfit to show everyone just how rock hard his legs were and express a little ballet bullet adams apple only to be totally embarrassed when (just by good luck) my tallbike blocked his ability to squeeze in between a couple with their stroller and another reasonable paced biker on my right. I wish he woulda dumped it cause I would been laughing much harder than I was. I don't mess with people on purpose, but when am passing someone feeling like it is safe only to almost be ran into by some jerko going the other way who literally was not there 5 seconds before. It's a nice feeling to put someone in their place. So all you spandex tighty white people who got no clue MESSAGE: your 20+ pace on a crowded lakefront is not wise, safe or appropriate. Stick to the street or wait till the crowds air out a little downtown. Ha Ha
Permalink Reply by Homebuilt on June 8, 2009 at 6:08am
I mostly try to reserve my comments to two scenarios now:
1. a specific discourtesy to me, such as passing me on the right, or cutting in front of me at a light when they're riding slower.

2. specific known dangers to themselves, such as going to the right of right-turning traffic. Since the latter is one of the best ways to get killed on a bike, I try to politely talk to riders who I see doing that. I usually start with "I'm going to give you some unsolicited advice..."
Permalink Reply by lauren sailor on June 8, 2009 at 3:46pm
for bike salmon, i used to check traffic behind me and move left, allowing them to pass on the inside. i've since adopted howard's technique of taking the inside (but avoiding the door zone!) and forcing them into traffic. after all, why should i let them compromise my safety?

jody, i also do the "on your right!" call if someone squeezes me while passing. and if i catch up to them, something along the lines of, "thanks for letting me know you were there, man, that was so considerate," just dripping as much sarcasm as i can muster.

earlier this every evening, i was traveling north on halsted through the UIC area. i passed a cyclist near 16th street. while waiting behind the white line at roosevelt, waiting for a green light, he passed me and went into the intersection after seeing that cross-traffic on roosevelt had stopped moving. he apparently doesn't cycle often enough to know that there's a left-turn light at that intersection before north/southbound traffic gets a green, but at least he was attentive enough to see that a bunch of cars (turning left, with a green arrow and the right of way) were heading toward him. so, about two bike lengths past the white line, he wobbled awkwardly before setting a foot down.

once the light changed i passed him, and as i did i yelled, "nice work, man, really awesome job!! are you trying to get yourself killed?!" i know it's possible to blow lights safely, and i do not complain when seasoned cyclists do so. if you don't have the skills, though, or the knowledge of the light cycles, it's probably better for you to just wait for the green, rather than making yourself look like an idiot.

so, yeah, i guess i respond with sarcasm and smartassery.
Permalink Reply by DonRay A.K.A. Zesty on June 8, 2009 at 6:03pm
I try and never tell people what to do unless it affects me directly-cycling or otherwise.
Permalink Reply by vxla on June 9, 2009 at 2:01am
Jody says:
I also have zero issues about pointing out awful motorist behavior directly to their faces - yelling, kicking, and even sometimes spitting all fall within the realm of acceptable behavior from my own prospective when it comes to people who choose to drive their cars in a way that hugely risks my safety (and life!).

[...]

When it comes to motorists - I don't care. Let them get angry. Maybe they'll think about it again later and perhaps not do that again.


Most motorists seem to have a very short memory, so I choose not to antagonize someone in a 2500-pound mass of steel and let the next person deal with them down the street anymore. It's kinda like pouring toxic water into someone else's drinking supply...sure I don't have to deal with it, but someone does.
Permalink Reply by Homebuilt on June 9, 2009 at 2:52am
For motorists, I do find it best if I can try to treat it as an educational session. After all, most dumbass moves are due to ignorance rather than pure evil intent.
Permalink Reply by Kevin Mulcky on June 9, 2009 at 4:14am
i like that, unsolicited advice.

Homebuilt said:
I mostly try to reserve my comments to two scenarios now:
1. a specific discourtesy to me, such as passing me on the right, or cutting in front of me at a light when they're riding slower.

2. specific known dangers to themselves, such as going to the right of right-turning traffic. Since the latter is one of the best ways to get killed on a bike, I try to politely talk to riders who I see doing that. I usually start with "I'm going to give you some unsolicited advice..."
Permalink Reply by maud amanda squiers on June 9, 2009 at 5:22am
for the most part, i figure that if people want to be reckless, go ahead. image problems aside, their bad behavior has little effect on me.

however! my greatest pet peeve in the world has got to be bicyclists on the sidewalk. what do i do with them? they make me want to scream, "get on the effing street! you have wheels!" but - even when there are 'no bikes on sidewalk' signs *coughdowntownevanstoncough* - i just feel like a curmudgeony old woman that no one would listen to. am i irrational? is there a decent response to them?

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