Toyota's accelerator recall...and our lives<u>
Recent articles are beginning to blame Toyota's accelerator problems and mass recalls, on the confusing increase in technology of cars in general...drivers just cannot shut them off!
...the problem may be deeper than just...mat entrapment of accelerator pedals. [Drivers are] unable to shift the car into neutral or switch off the engine, some of the typical things a driver would do during unintended acceleration.
To switch off the...Lexus' engine while driving [you] would have had to
press and hold the "Stop/Start" button for three seconds, an action
that is not obvious and could be difficult to accomplish while swerving
through traffic at high speeds. And the Lexus features a shifter that
follows a slightly twisting path rather than sliding directly fore and
aft.The Lexus shifter is far from the most confusing on the market. That title is up
for grabs among Toyota's hybrid models and the latest models from
Mercedes-Benz and BMW....
While biking south on Halsted in the bike lane, I had a northbound car, apparently out of control, swerve all the way across the street directly at me at a high rate of speed. At the last moment, I made a sharp left turn in front of the oncoming car that continuted past me on the right. Fortunately no other cars were nearby, and the driver apparently got the car under control in the next block.
But as the above article points out, with the increase in complexity of car controls, we can look forward to more out-of-control cars. My maneuver was performed without thinking; it could have been suicide. I'd like to have a better plan. Does anyone have any suggestions how to avoid out-of-control cars when on a bike?
...the problem may be deeper than just...mat entrapment of accelerator pedals. [Drivers are] unable to shift the car into neutral or switch off the engine, some of the typical things a driver would do during unintended acceleration.
To switch off the...Lexus' engine while driving [you] would have had to
press and hold the "Stop/Start" button for three seconds, an action
that is not obvious and could be difficult to accomplish while swerving
through traffic at high speeds. And the Lexus features a shifter that
follows a slightly twisting path rather than sliding directly fore and
aft.The Lexus shifter is far from the most confusing on the market. That title is up
for grabs among Toyota's hybrid models and the latest models from
Mercedes-Benz and BMW....
While biking south on Halsted in the bike lane, I had a northbound car, apparently out of control, swerve all the way across the street directly at me at a high rate of speed. At the last moment, I made a sharp left turn in front of the oncoming car that continuted past me on the right. Fortunately no other cars were nearby, and the driver apparently got the car under control in the next block.
But as the above article points out, with the increase in complexity of car controls, we can look forward to more out-of-control cars. My maneuver was performed without thinking; it could have been suicide. I'd like to have a better plan. Does anyone have any suggestions how to avoid out-of-control cars when on a bike?
Views: 103
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on
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OK, so I am so sick of this recall stuff and I am finally going to blow my top here.
1. When you do the numbers on the Toyota problem the number of suspected failures compared to the number of vehicles out there with the 'bad parts' on them you are looking at a tiny, tiny percentage. One that, in all reality accounts for maybe 2-3 hours of total production out of several years of production.
2. Notice my use of the word 'suspected' of the maybe 130 cases of uncontrolled acceleration how many of them where an actual issue and how many where a driver stomping the wrong pedal in a panic and unable to react to what happened? Did you know that a disturbingly high percentage of the population have a 'catatonic' reaction to panic situations? This means that something like 25% of the drivers out there when faced with a emergency that requires immediate action will simply freeze up. Don't believe it; I had a friends who's sister drove a car into a house because 'the steering locked, the brakes failed and the accelerator stuck all at the same time.' Wrong. She froze up under pressure. People die in air crahes all the time because they sit, uninjured, in the seats and burn to death out of pure panic.
3. It is true you have to hold the stop button on the Lexus, but your owners manual tells you that and if you can not take the time to learn how your car works you deserve to have it kill you.
4. The complex shift gate on cars is to prevent you from accidentally knocking it out of gear or into the wrong one; this is a safety feature. I have driven the model of Lexus involved in the crash and the use of the shifter is common sense; this whole thing returns back to #2 people panic and do not react in a rational manner. The man who died and took his family with him on the cell phone was a moron of a degree that I can not imagine. Keep in mind they reached top speed AFTER burning the brakes off the car; that takes some serious time, more then 3 seconds, a lot more. As for figuring out the shifter the man had enough time to DIAL HIS CELL PHONE!!! Maybe he should have spent that time putting the car into neutral! You want to save lives legislate training for motor vehicle operators that includes learning how to react to emergencies. Know why pilots don't crash like morons when stuff goes wrong? Because they are trained to react logically under duress.
5. Did you know that for almost 30 years 90% of American cars had a throttle linkage that would often cause unintended wide open throttle? Are you aware that every diesel vehicle out there on the road not controlled by a computer has the capability to 'run away' with no possible way to shut it off? Did it ever occur to you that ANY type of throttle linkage has the ability to freeze at wide open throttle? Did you know that a gas engine of any type, under the right conditions, can continue to run with the key off? What's the point to this? The point is that anytime you have a machine there is a manner in which it can fail putting the operator and others in peril; this is true of ANY machine. Unless we want to go back to banging rocks together and walking everywhere (even a horse can run away uncommanded) we need to spend less time looking to blame everything out there other then people for problems. You will never remove the dangerous failure aspect of cars and trucks; we must rely on the operators to react properly and the only way to do that is proper training.
l
6. More out of control cars my ass. Look at point 5, I bet the percentage of failures that put cars out of control is about the same now as it was 30 years ago; what is increasing the damage is the fact that we are becoming worse and worse drivers because no one has any respect for driving anymore. everyone views it as a right and a simple task when in all reality it is a very complex one.
7. Don't trust computer controlled stuff? Better not fly anymore... The Airbus A320 family, introduced in the 80's does not have a single control in it that is mechanically linked to the pilot; everything is electronic and they seem to not fall out of the air very often. most modern aircraft are 'fly by wire' Electronic controls are very reliable, often more so then mechanical linkage.
8. I am so sick of people who have no idea about something writing articles and making comments about it. Are any of you aware that the acceleration problem is actually a MECHANICAL issue and not an electronic one!? The real issue is that the sensor that tells the car where the pedal is can be pushed over center causing it to lock up at full throttle thus telling the computer the pedal is wide open even when it is not. Know why Toyota and others kept saying the issue was not possible? Because almost all controllers like that are set to fail to a zero state; meaning if the electronics go haywire they go to the off, or closed, state. Until it was realized that this was a mechanical issue people where looking in the wrong spots; this is a common diagnostic failure on stuff that is computer controlled. People always blame the electronics for a simple mechanical issue and then waste time looking in the wrong spot. Did you know that even today, with all the computers on cars, most of their service issues are the direct result of a issue with a mechanical part or sensor and not with the controls themselves?
Long story short?
PEOPLE NEED TO STOP TALKING ABOUT SHIT THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!!! All it does is fill the air with misconceptions and bad information leading to panic and stupid reactions by the public.
Or you could all keep it up and I'll just buy a really nice used Toyota for halt what it is worth...
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Permalink Reply by S on
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I think Dug has a point there, you're much, much more likely to run into an out of control car due to a driver that is asleep, drunk, high, or doing something stupid. I don't think there's much you can do to prepare beforehand, it'll be different every time. You'd probably have to stay in your basement and never leave if you want to avoid the possibility of running into out of control cars.
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Permalink Reply by Dave Jacque on
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Bravo, DUG. A friend of mine had an old Impala with a broken engine mount. Every once in a while, that 350 block would shift a bit and stretch the mechanical linkage: Vroooooooooom! and away we'd go.
See Farhad Manjoo's excellent column in Slate:
http://www.slate.com/id/2244887/
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Permalink Reply by dan brown on
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great thread and thanks Dug for spending the time on your reply.
my policy is this when cycling through the city L:
1) Assume efery driver is texting / toking / drinking / packing (heat) and a potential road-rageer
2) Assume no driver sees me until I make eye contact
3) always watch the (car's) front wheel - wherever it goes the car will follow.
4) always have an 'escape route' for when the random door is popped open or a driver (see #1)
"decides" to (impulsively) make a U-Turn.
I could go on....but won't
DB
Clark said:Thanks for your input Dug...now I know why you're "notorious."
...and I'll just buy a really nice used Toyota for halt what it is worth...
Freudian slip?
My question was directed at CYCLISTS not drivers. What is the safest evasive maneuver we can take on a bike when confronted by a oncoming out-of-control car?
- throw yourself over the hood of a parked car to your right?
- sharp left turn as I did?
- maintain course and speed...and pray?
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Excellent advice. Defensive cycling, like defensive driving, is always your best defense.
I will add two things.
Just because there is eye contact they do not see you; I have had people pull right out in front of me as they where looking at, or through, me.
Always have an out planned but never have a 'standard' out that you always have in the back of your head; as has always been stated no two situations are the same and what can save you in one case can kill you in another.
daniel brown said:great thread and thanks Dug for spending the time on your reply.
my policy is this when cycling through the city L:
1) Assume efery driver is texting / toking / drinking / packing (heat) and a potential road-rageer
2) Assume no driver sees me until I make eye contact
3) always watch the (car's) front wheel - wherever it goes the car will follow.
4) always have an 'escape route' for when the random door is popped open or a driver (see #1)
"decides" to (impulsively) make a U-Turn.
I could go on....but won't
DB
Clark said:Thanks for your input Dug...now I know why you're "notorious."
...and I'll just buy a really nice used Toyota for halt what it is worth...
Freudian slip?
My question was directed at CYCLISTS not drivers. What is the safest evasive maneuver we can take on a bike when confronted by a oncoming out-of-control car?
- throw yourself over the hood of a parked car to your right?
- sharp left turn as I did?
- maintain course and speed...and pray?
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Permalink Reply by millenial removing Bernie tattoo on
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Way back in the 80s, they had a string of lawsuits blaming uncontrolled car acceleration on then newfangled "cruise control". Turned out it was just idiots with the foot on the wrong pedal.
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Permalink Reply by GabeW (not the other Gabe) on
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:) my old MG would stay running with the key completely out of the ignition as long as the headlights were still on.
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Permalink Reply by mike w. on
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Lucas electrics... pffft.
GabeW (not the other Gabe) said::) my old MG would stay running with the key completely out of the ignition as long as the headlights were still on.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Perz on
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mike w. said:Lucas electrics... pffft.
GabeW (not the other Gabe) said::) my old MG would stay running with the key completely out of the ignition as long as the headlights were still on.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Bullis 5.5-6.5 miles on
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Dug, couldn't have said it better myself. Involve a human and something, or someone, will get effed up(experience talking) and the effer will be looking for someone else to blame.
The requirements to obtain and maintain an automobile drivers license in this country are a joke. I have a held a C and M license for almost 40 years and have not been retested once in that time. Something is wrong with this system.
The three positions of a Lucas headlight switch; OFF, DIM, and FLICKER.
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Permalink Reply by Ali on
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Brits to this day don't know how to wire a car properly...I saw a brand new Lotus Exige catch on fire on the lot of a dealership 2 years ago...That's a $70,000 sticker car too!!!
-Ali
Michael Perz said:
mike w. said:Lucas electrics... pffft.
GabeW (not the other Gabe) said::) my old MG would stay running with the key completely out of the ignition as long as the headlights were still on.
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Permalink Reply by Jim "Niterider" on
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1)If they are coming toward slow down and hop the curb and get on the sidewalk.
2)If you are in the sticks, eat the ditch if you must.
This only applies if you are paying attention to the situation at hand. Had a near miss down in Zion with a drunk at the wheel of a pick up moving at me head on at 3 a.m. last summer. He was a good block or two away and weaving all over on Lewis Ave. I managed to jump over the curb before he slamed into a light pole and other objects. Had I not been watching I would have been f-slammed. The county roads you take your chances with the ditches that can be 3-4 feet deep and filled with a varity of dangerous objects. Only thing that sucks is when the out of control car is behind you. No good suggestions here Clark. I have been hit from behind at least 8 or 9 times in the last 20 years. Unless you have eyes in back of your head or are using mirrors, good luck. Being cut off when the jerk is trying to pass you or being mirrored are my most common situations that seem to most happen to me. Also this should apply to fellow riders that may not be paying attention due to checking out some T and A, texting or on the phone or geeked out looking at his or her HRM or computer or I-pod. Had a gal run in to me last year on DPR by Old School forest preserve. She was on her phone yapping when she clipped me. She yells at me saying I better look out after getting up. I reminded her she was on her phone not paying attention. Had she been in a car I most likely would have been hit or having to slam a ditch. Peolpe let's use our heads when riding or driving. Can't you just wait for spring to begin, fresh roadrash, broken bones, bikes, and helmets.
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