The shoaling thread - understanding this phenomenon

To clean up other threads, let's have our CIVIL thoughts/opinions/discussion on shoaling.

Obviously it bugs people when it is repetitive and puts a faster rider in a situation where taking the lane to pass is the only option, thus subjecting someone to a great risk of injury.  Others don't care either because they adjust their speed or weren't going that fast in the first place.

Perhaps some ground rules to the discussion?

1.  Shoaling, in this arena, is the act of moving to the front of a rider/group of riders in an attempt to get to the front of a mass of riders and then proceeding at a slower speed than originally held by the group, thus causing riders to pass.  This is to happen more than once on a stretch of road. 

2.  Shoaling is not (to be changed if needed) a faster rider moving to the front of a rider/group of riders knowing they will accelerate faster than the other riders, therefore not causing potentially unsafe passing.

3.  Assume people either for or against the act of shoaling isn't form a self-righteous position.

4.  Civil disagreements can ensue, mods can feel free to stop a train before it derails the thread completely.  That also means NO personal attacks, if someone freely admits to being a shoaler for what ever reason, they should feel safe stating their position and why they do it.

5.  State your case/thoughts/opinions/constructive criticism and let others respond.  If your response is going to be too long, a cliff notes Tl;Dr would be appreciated at the beginning or end of your post.

6.  Lets remember we all share something in common (myself very much included) and we very well could run into each other out on the street riding.  If it is kept civil here, it will be civil out there despite our different position on shoaling.

I, for one, am excited to read other's thoughts and so on, on this topic.  I am also open to learning something new and how I can best avoid having animosity towards other cyclists.

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Permalink Reply by Davo on September 24, 2014 at 10:44am

Am I annoyed by shoaling, yes. Does it ruin my day, no. Another phenomenon I encounter is when I try to motion to a faster rider to go ahead of me and they don't only to pass me later.

Permalink Reply by Chitown_Mike on September 24, 2014 at 10:49am

I'll throw up my thoughts:

I ride hard for the simple reason I enjoy it more.  I am far from lackadaisical in my pedaling because most of my exercise comes from riding.  I try my darnedest to be as safe and courteous to other riders, but I can be snippy when I feel I am being slighted in a way that jeopardizes my safety or makes the cycling community look bad in the eyes of the general public (again, my opinion).

If I am consistently passed by a slower cyclist that shoals at lights for whatever reason, and being forced to pass in traffic, it is upsetting.  I don't need to be injured or killed because another discourteous rider feels an obligation to pass.  I do not mind it when a faster rider passes me, in fact I try to assume that most riders will so when the initial "shoal" takes place at a light, I assume they will out ride me and I will continue on my way.  When the incident takes place again and again, that's when I assume they are being a jerk.

If I notice my speed coming up to a rider is causing me to catch up to them and we end up at the same light, I will still refrain from passing until after the light has changed.  Then I will announce my pass on their left, thank them and wish them a good morning/afternoon/evening.  I also will not pass queued up riders even when I know I will catch a green and not have to stop or slow, I still wait.

That's just me at this time, curious to read other people's thoughts and such.

Permalink Reply by Chitown_Mike on September 24, 2014 at 10:56am

Perhaps they were enjoying the reported 30% more efficiency of your draft?

There should be a thread about wheel suckers that draft but don't offer, or won't, take the pull on the front.

Davo said:

Am I annoyed by shoaling, yes. Does it ruin my day, no. Another phenomenon I encounter is when I try to motion to a faster rider to go ahead of me and they don't only to pass me later.

Permalink Reply by Tricolor on September 24, 2014 at 11:33am

Shoaling is done by people either not paying attention or intentionally planning to 'get one over' on everyone else.  Neither one is acceptable on foot, in a car or any other social situation I can think of, so why should cyclists get an exemption?

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on September 24, 2014 at 12:42pm

I don't see shoaling as any different than coming up to any line of people waiting to move on to the next stage of whatever they are doing and going straight to the front of the line, it is line-butting. 

Imagine being in line at a Vienna Beef stand and there are 4 guys (or gals) there waiting to put in their order.  Dude (or dudette) comes right up and just goes to the front of the line.  That's how I see it when someone shoals up in front of others at a light.  

Not only is it rude, but that big white line in front of the crosswalk is there for a reason.  It's jerky to be in the crosswalk in the way of crossing peds, or worse yet being in front of it in the middle of the intersection doing a track-stand and getting in the way of cars and even other bikes who have the green and the right of way going by -it makes all of us look bad, IMHO, when someone is riding in this way. 

If the light is changing and they cruise on by just as it turns green that's a whole different story.  That doesn't bother me at all as it is no skin off my back and we all understand about momentum.  No point in blowing all your momentum just to get into the back of a line that they'd leave way behind anyhow, but it better be changing and the guy (or gal) better know for sure it is going to change because if it doesn't he just performed another jerk move in my opinion.  Accidental shoaling is even more obnoxious than ordinary clueless shoaling. 

The thing that bothers me the most about shoaling is that even though I'm not a super-fast top-speed rider I have these things call "gears" on my bike and I use the low ones just about every time I come to a stop unless I am surprised by a last-minute yellow light or a pedestrian jumping out or something.  It's a safety thing because an intersection is one of the most dangerous places to be for a bicycle as the light turns green. I want to get going quickly and get to the other side as fast as possible.  We are pretty much sitting ducks just starting out and having some shoaling oaf get in front and then dawdle through the whole intersection getting back up to speed is just putting me at greater risk.  It seems that shoalers are more often than not a fixie or single-speed rider who struggles getting back up to speed again in front of me.  When a bike is just crawling along like that we have little maneuverability. It's like a sailboat.  Without some "way" we cant really steer quickly and make evasive maneuvers if necessary. 

I'm never really in much of a hurry and someone getting in front of me isn't a big deal.  It's the taking off slow and holding me up and helpless in a danger zone that really annoys me most about shoaling. 

Permalink Reply by MagMileMarauder on September 24, 2014 at 1:20pm

If you time your arrival to the stoplights, you'll very likely avoid this phenomenon called "shoaling". In other words, rushing to an intersection when the light is OR will turn red perhaps isn't the most efficient way of riding either. If you anticipate the stoplight changes, you'll have less stops and less irritation from said "shoalers". I play a game to see how few stops I have to make while I ride or commute. To avoid constant stopping and going (an advantage bikes have over cars)  I usually ride slowly in the dense city, unless it's a long stretch without stoplights, ex, Milwaukee Ave NW of Halsted and SW of Ashland or when there's barely any traffic outside.

Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on September 24, 2014 at 1:52pm

I have never understood the hurry of drivers or cyclists to get to the next red light.  In either situation it is such an incredible waste of energy.

MagMileMarauder said:

If you time your arrival to the stoplights, you'll very likely avoid this phenomenon called "shoaling". In other words, rushing to an intersection when the light is OR will turn red perhaps isn't the most efficient way of riding either. If you anticipate the stoplight changes, you'll have less stops and less irritation from said "shoalers". I play a game to see how few stops I have to make while I ride or commute. To avoid constant stopping and going (an advantage bikes have over cars)  I usually ride slowly in the dense city, unless it's a long stretch without stoplights, ex, Milwaukee Ave NW of Halsted and SW of Ashland or when there's barely any traffic outside.

Permalink Reply by Shawn Evans on September 24, 2014 at 7:53pm

Most of what is described as 'shoaling' is just basic human behavior. People want to get to where they're going. Simple as that. They're not crashing into anybody. Modern urban designers would call what they're doing 'desire lines' or something and design around it. Maybe they should draw squares in the bike box for them??

This anger at 'shoaling' is just petty annoyance.
It's not 'cutting in line' at the store because they're not buying anything, and ANY delays in your trip are extemely minor.
(Someone cutting in line at the a store delays you by minutes, and a 'shoaler' delays you a few seconds at most.)
Some have claimed it's unsafe. But if you're faster, AND can pass safely, you do. Therefore, it IS safe. The ONLY WAY it could be unsafe if the one 'shoaled', in his anger/rage at being 'shoaled', passes recklessly (too close to cars or bikers).
Since we all know speed kills, the 'shoaler' could be saving lives by 'calming traffic'.
Bike lanes are not 'cycletracks' or whatever they call bike race tracks.
Slow down/calm down. Live longer.
It's a proven fact those crazy motorists who speed thru yellows or reds and swerve through traffic, get to their destination all of like 2.2 minutes sooner. It's not worth it.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on September 25, 2014 at 1:31am

Just like car drivers who won't don't merge when they see the lane is closed up ahead and drive past all the stopped cars to the end of the empty lane and then want back in.

I wonder why this lane isn't moving?

They aren't "buying anything" so it's not butting, right?

Electrolytes...

Permalink Reply by Reboot Oxnard on September 25, 2014 at 1:44am

What is described as 'shoaling' is the result of two distinct riding styles - the tortoises and the hares - coming into conflict. The hares ride hard and fast until they can’t, braking as hard as they accelerate. Anything in their way is an obstacle to be overcome and everything is in their way unless it's behind them. The tortoises, on the other hand, mosey. They ride efficiently, conserving energy by accelerating slowly and coasting up to obstacles such as red lights - even trying to time lights so that they don't have to come to a full stop. Thus the strategies inherently put the two schools in conflict.

Neither tortoises nor hares like red lights, where they differ are in their strategies for dealing with them. The jack-rabbits want everyone to cue up behind them at a light so that they can preserve their position in the lead. The turtles want to conserve as much energy and if that means passing riders who have stopped, so be it. So, who should yield?

Let's start with a simple suggestion that *everyone* can follow at no cost: If you're going to have to stop at an intersection and you know you're slower than the group, stop at the rear of the group. Likewise, if you know you're faster than the group, get thee to the front. Be smart, self-select and if you don't know your speed in relationship to the group, take a spot at the rear of the line until you do. Beyond that, neither the tortoises nor the hares have priority over the other, so long as they pass safely.

The bottom line is that there is no real solution to this 'problem' - the two strategies/styles are simply incompatible and neither is going to change. Unless you would rather the other guy was in a car, hating on tortoises or hares is counter-productive.

As an aside, as a tortoise, I try not to hate on the hares - the @#$%ing lycranauts – but don’t always succeed. I’d like to point out to my more frenetic brethren who have to pass me yet again in the middle of the block because I’ve coasted past them at each of the past four red lights that the smile you see on my face isn’t clueless oblivion but smug satisfaction. To the extent that it sucks to be you, that’s on you and if this whole shoaling thing is a first tier problem in your life, you truly are living the good life. For that, at least, I’m glad.

Permalink Reply by Michelle S on September 25, 2014 at 2:31am

OK, here's a little twist. What about the people who are hares in terms of speed when they finally get up to a pace, but they're tortoises starting up? I ride my upright bike at a moderate/relaxed pace, but when I'm waiting at a red light and it finally turns to green, I am immediately pedaling forward. It's somewhat annoying when there is a person on a road bike in front of me, but when the light turns green, it takes them a second or two to register, then clip their foot onto the pedal, and then do whatever else is necessary to finally achieve some forward motion. Do you consider it shoaling if I pass them right when the light turns green?

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on September 25, 2014 at 2:32am

Some people go to the pool to just sit on a recumbent noodle noodle toy and splash around.  They don't swim back and forth to put any real distance in by doing "laps" or are in any hurry at all to "get anywhere"  as they are just having fun on the weekend.  

These folks look down on the "lycra-clad" extremists who come to the pool every day & swimming way too fast so that they are getting in everyone's way in their fancy lycra "swimming trunks."  Why not just wear their cut-off jeans.  Pools are for wading around in the shallow end or maybe going under the rope and dog-paddle into the deep end once or twice.  What's the hurry to need all that "low-drag" specialized Olympic swimming gear?   Where are you going in such a rush?

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