Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Vilda on January 5, 2011 at 6:47am

i'm a raging bigoted facist troll. i can't wait for the business cards. :-)

the "modern" vehicles you r speaking of r the new ones where it will apply the break or slow down for u if something has happened. those are still only equipped in luxury vehicles. the vast majority of cars are in the drivers control. that argument is 10 years from being meaningful.

and we are talking about milliseconds of reaction time for a driver. and u r absolutely right when u say there are many factors. drowsiness, cell phone, etc... each one making the chance of an accident greater. so is the argument that a disabled person wont also talk on the phone and be sleepy? they r disabled and therefore already are starting out slower than an abled person (if they weren't at all slower they wouldn't be disabled). then those factors will only compound the issues they are dealing with.

Permalink Reply by Liz on January 5, 2011 at 6:51am

Um, clearly you have never driven a car without power steering or power braking. Almost all cars on the road today (luxury or not) have power steering, braking, shifting etc.  There are a lot of electronics in even the "simplest" car doing a lot of things for you.

Gabe said:

i'm a raging bigoted facist troll. i can't wait for the business cards. :-)

the "modern" vehicles you r speaking of r the new ones where it will apply the break or slow down for u if something has happened. those are still only equipped in luxury vehicles. the vast majority of cars are in the drivers control. that argument is 10 years from being meaningful.

and we are talking about milliseconds of reaction time for a driver. and u r absolutely right when u say there are many factors. drowsiness, cell phone, etc... each one making the chance of an accident greater. so is the argument that a disabled person wont also talk on the phone and be sleepy? they r disabled and therefore already are starting out slower than an abled person (if they weren't at all slower they wouldn't be disabled). then those factors will only compound the issues they are dealing with.

Permalink Reply by Vilda on January 5, 2011 at 6:57am

sorry liz i thought u were trying to use an argument that would be in some way relevant to this discussion. i'm sure a dead cyclist would be happy to know that the car that killed them had power breaking and steering. and wouldnt be at all saddened that the driver was just a second to slow to use them properly.

Permalink Reply by Davo on January 5, 2011 at 7:27am

Based on what you said previously about how cars should not be modified for people with disabilities, what is your stance on bicycles that are modified for people with disabilities? I’m specifically talking about the mods for paraplegics that you see in iron man competitions. I've seen a guy with one of these on Critical Mass. 

Permalink Reply by Jack on January 5, 2011 at 7:51am

In a perfect world of unicorns crapping rainbows, everyone would follow the laws, delays caused by others wouldn't exist and no one would have the unfortunate distinction of being handicapped.

 

Well, I didn't see a unicorn crapping rainbows today soooo... banning handicapped drivers is narrow minded.  We could also make travel safer if engine driven vehicles were banned all together, then ban bicycles as well as they would be probably the next in line of "dangerous" modes of transportation. 

 

If your left ankle is shattered in an accident (by said unicorns if you will) and you own an automatic transmission car, would this be an exception to the handicap "rule" people here are proposing?  You would have a temporary HC card for your car.  It wouldn't limit their ability to drive said car. 

 

When drawing a line in the sand, it is amazing how the lines are all within arms' reach.

Permalink Reply by Vilda on January 5, 2011 at 8:02am

davo-can u kill someone with the modified bicycle. unlikely. you could beat them to death with it but if ya hit someone with it chances are they wont die. made me giggle though.

jack-a broken left ankle happers nothing in an automatic car. he or she gets no placard they get a walking boot and a bill from the doc.

is it my understanding that no one believes a handicapped person would be at all slower behind the wheel? why r they handicapped then? if nothing is wrong then no discussion is necessary.

everyones need to hug everyone else and not accept obvious things in front of them is narrow minded isnt it?

Permalink Reply by Vilda on January 5, 2011 at 8:06am

sorry, hampers not happers.

and if handicapped people being behind the wheel is ok and the fact they r slower is acceptable than why bother legislating against cell phone use or texting or even drinkin behind the wheel? we can do away with all of it if that's the case. :-)

Permalink Reply by Jack on January 5, 2011 at 8:15am

A physical handicap is a physical handicap.  I could a medical reason to not walk great distances (in comes the handicap card) that do not affect my reflexes.  A handicap card isn't for people who are handicapped while driving, but rather to shorten the distance to the entrance of said parking lot. 

I don't have a need to hug everyone else, in fact I am all for limiting the number of drivers out there.  Not for physical handicaps that some see as a limitation, but for sub-par mental capacity.  The real problem with drivers (in my eyes) isn't whether someone's car is modified to allow a physically impaired person to drive safely.  It is with people who don't pay attention, can not follow simple driving rules, and assumes everyone should just watch out for them.  Ignorance is the bigger problem, not handicap drivers.  If a driver truely concentrated on the task at hand (DRIVING!), there wouldn't be a fraction of the accidents out there.  No rules or restrictions will change that.

 

Plus, when you are arguing about these handicap spaces not being utilized and going un-used by other drivers it falls on deaf ears.  by the time someone circles the parking lot looking for a close space, you could park on the outskirts of the lot and walk to the store entrance (and wave to the lazy SOB trying to save a few steps on your way in). 

Gabe said:

davo-can u kill someone with the modified bicycle. unlikely. you could beat them to death with it but if ya hit someone with it chances are they wont die. made me giggle though.

jack-a broken left ankle happers nothing in an automatic car. he or she gets no placard they get a walking boot and a bill from the doc.

is it my understanding that no one believes a handicapped person would be at all slower behind the wheel? why r they handicapped then? if nothing is wrong then no discussion is necessary.

everyones need to hug everyone else and not accept obvious things in front of them is narrow minded isnt it?

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on January 5, 2011 at 8:22am

Thank you, Jack!  You make some very good points.

Jack said:

A physical handicap is a physical handicap.  I could a medical reason to not walk great distances (in comes the handicap card) that do not affect my reflexes.  A handicap card isn't for people who are handicapped while driving, but rather to shorten the distance to the entrance of said parking lot. 

I don't have a need to hug everyone else, in fact I am all for limiting the number of drivers out there.  Not for physical handicaps that some see as a limitation, but for sub-par mental capacity.  The real problem with drivers (in my eyes) isn't whether someone's car is modified to allow a physically impaired person to drive safely.  It is with people who don't pay attention, can not follow simple driving rules, and assumes everyone should just watch out for them.  Ignorance is the bigger problem, not handicap drivers.  If a driver truely concentrated on the task at hand (DRIVING!), there wouldn't be a fraction of the accidents out there.  No rules or restrictions will change that.

 

Plus, when you are arguing about these handicap spaces not being utilized and going un-used by other drivers it falls on deaf ears.  by the time someone circles the parking lot looking for a close space, you could park on the outskirts of the lot and walk to the store entrance (and wave to the lazy SOB trying to save a few steps on your way in). 

Permalink Reply by BalloonBiker on January 5, 2011 at 8:28am

There is a continuum of bad drivers...I agree that people who can't drive well, shouldn't be driving, however, as long as they pass a baseline, they should be able to be licensed.  Some people can probably drive better while drunk than some people can drive sober.  Others may be able to drive while on a cell phone better than those who are paying complete attention to the road.

 

Some folks see better than others....others have a better sense of direction or hearing. Some folks drive for a living or even race and likely have better reflexes than most.  There are also some people who have slower reflexes, but are still safe. There are some 90-year-olds who are fantastic drives and there are some 70-year-olds who have had their licenses revoked.

 

On this site:  http://www.cartalk.com/content/features/Special-Needs/remarkable.html  there are stories of people who may be exceptional drivers who also happen to have disabilities...many of them are likely better than average drivers.

 

I think what some are saying on here is that there should be more stringegent guidelines for licensing drivers and stiffer penalties for driving in an unsafe manner.  However, basing this off of a single criteria like disability, while ignoring the fact that there is a continuum on driving ability and reaction times among the general population does seem to be a very narrow-minded.

 

By all means we should have stricter licensing standards and enforcement and a shift away from the absent-minded driving that is done now.  However, singling out classes of people is riduculous and illegal.

Permalink Reply by milesperhour on January 5, 2011 at 9:53am

You obviously have no idea what a pita it is to get out of a car while casted or in a boot with less than a foot of space.  you can't swing your left leg out like you normally would and put all of your weight on it while raising the rest of your body out of the car.  you have to get both legs out and hoist yourself up. are you really this close-minded?  it's baffling to me.

 

Gabe said:

jack-a broken left ankle happers nothing in an automatic car. he or she gets no placard they get a walking boot and a bill from the doc.

Permalink Reply by Davo on January 5, 2011 at 10:21am

Well at least he doesn't want to (in reference to handicapped people) "put them down", "out to pasture", or "take them to live on the farm".

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