North Avenue Beach Assaults?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Melanie K on
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Actually, has anyone been on the LFP in this area since this discussion started? I am just curious since I normally avoid that route during the afternoon/evening just because it gets too slow & crowded, and now I have been avoiding it because of the dangers it could pose. Has anyone gotten a recent glimpse these past few extremely hot and humid days to provide an update? Thanks.
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Permalink Reply by S on
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I was on the south sectin LFP up till the museum campus and there were quite a few people at 35th St beach and it was pretty crowded at that stretch. I can't imagine the oak st/north ave beach sections being less crowded. There was a fairly heavy police presence though and this morning when I went up till belmont harbor and back south I noticed there where atv patrols between oak st and fullerton.
Melanie said:
Actually, has anyone been on the LFP in this area since this discussion started? I am just curious since I normally avoid that route during the afternoon/evening just because it gets too slow & crowded, and now I have been avoiding it because of the dangers it could pose. Has anyone gotten a recent glimpse these past few extremely hot and humid days to provide an update? Thanks.
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Permalink Reply by David on
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I rode from Navy Pier to the North end of the LFP last night around 7PM then rode back around 10. Around 7PM, the path between Oak and North was clogged with your typical small groups of clueless teens, but no large mob-like gangs and there was a huge police presence. So it was annoying, but didn't feel dangerous at all.
Coming back, the crowds had dispersed and it was a typical (and gorgeous) summer night on the LFP, although there was still a much larger than usual police presence and, at least when I passed, there were lots of service vehicles on the path between North and Chicago. That didn't seem related to the police presence, they were probably just cleaning up.
Melanie said:Actually, has anyone been on the LFP in this area since this discussion started? I am just curious since I normally avoid that route during the afternoon/evening just because it gets too slow & crowded, and now I have been avoiding it because of the dangers it could pose. Has anyone gotten a recent glimpse these past few extremely hot and humid days to provide an update? Thanks.
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Permalink Reply by Alex B. on
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I guess I'm glad I don't live in the "true" Chicago. But I think it's hardly surprising that people who don't live in the most crime-ridden neighborhoods of the south and west sides care more about their own neighborhoods. The reaction to these attacks is proportional to the centrality, density, and purpose of the location. Mess with the hive, you're gonna get stung.
The acceptance when violence of this magnitude occurs on the far south side is really a reflection of the true chicago
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Hopefully the police presence will continue and it will be safe to travel the LFP once again- thank you for the updates!
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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I guess I'm glad I don't live in the "true" Chicago. But I think it's hardly surprising that people who don't live in the most crime-ridden neighborhoods of the south and west sides care more about their own neighborhoods. The reaction to these attacks is proportional to the centrality, density, and purpose of the location. Mess with the hive, you're gonna get stung.
The acceptance when violence of this magnitude occurs on the far south side is really a reflection of the true chicago
Blaming the people in crime-ridden areas and allowing them to just "take their own responsibility" leads to the situation we have right now. Bored youths from those areas are coming downtown. They have nothing better to do, no prospects for a better life, and will not face serious consiquences for thier actions.
There are many societal changes that need to occur before this cycle of violence and crime can be broken.
Should we start with the prison system? Criminals are put in a cell and let out some time later with fewer prospects of work than when they went it. What incentive do they have to not commit crime? If the revolving door prison system is marginally improved, it could mean very large savings to the tax payers.
Should we start with the community schools in these areas? They are underfunded, and even the most well meaning teachers cannot begin to address the serious issues of children who witness violence, are abused, neglected or just happen to be children of children who are not equipped to handle parenting. Having a consisten adult who is nuturing, caring, and looking out for their well being is not something that can be "fixed" by putting more police on the streets.
Should we start with addiction and drugs? The people most in need of help have no money or means to recieve it. This costs our society much more than simply paying to address these issues directly.
How about mental health? Even the most well off indivuals struggling with mental health disorders can suffer for decades before recieving the correct treatment. What are those without the means to pay for expensive psychiatrists and medications to do. How does out society address those who don't even aknowledge that they are sick?
How do we start to build community pride? Say what you will about Father Michael Pfleger but he has managed to make a comminty proud of itself. Teaching residants that this is not the way it has to be, that they can make a difference and improve their community is something that people don't even know is possible. Hopelessness is a terrible and destructive condition.
This is a very large problem, that does not have a simple solution.Adding police to high profile areas is putting a bandaid on the situation.
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Permalink Reply by Radfahrer on
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I liked what Trice and Schmich had to say, but Kass's essay was more tired ax-grinding (Daleyland) by a wealthy suburbanite who rode the red line long enough to find a black man to interview. The "true Chicago" is anywhere in the city we happen to live. I've been cycling on the lakefront since the 1970s, both recreationally and for commuting purposes, and chose my neighborhood because of its proximity to an unbelievably beautiful north-south bicycling corridor. In the pre-Chainlink days I was attacked around 35th Street during an off-hours training ride and made sure to notify the police immediately --and ride there again the next day, even though I was wary -- because I refuse to give up this bit of turf that so enriches my daily life. Plain and simple: If you are harassed or attacked, get the word out -- thanks, head honcho Chainlinkers for this fantastic resource -- call the police, but don't be afraid to cycle on the lakefront because of these incidents (we all know there are plenty of reasons to avoid the LFP in the summer, but fear shouldn't be one of them). What's the point of living here if we can't take advantage of one of the city's greatest assets?
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Permalink Reply by MagMileMarauder on
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Well said Liz. When we have a political and economical system rotten to the core like ours, it's very naive (yet very simple) to treat the these symptoms as the root cause of the problems we face.
Liz said:
I guess I'm glad I don't live in the "true" Chicago. But I think it's hardly surprising that people who don't live in the most crime-ridden neighborhoods of the south and west sides care more about their own neighborhoods. The reaction to these attacks is proportional to the centrality, density, and purpose of the location. Mess with the hive, you're gonna get stung.
The acceptance when violence of this magnitude occurs on the far south side is really a reflection of the true chicago
Blaming the people in crime-ridden areas and allowing them to just "take their own responsibility" leads to the situation we have right now. Bored youths from those areas are coming downtown. They have nothing better to do, no prospects for a better life, and will not face serious consiquences for thier actions.
There are many societal changes that need to occur before this cycle of violence and crime can be broken.
Should we start with the prison system? Criminals are put in a cell and let out some time later with fewer prospects of work than when they went it. What incentive do they have to not commit crime? If the revolving door prison system is marginally improved, it could mean very large savings to the tax payers.
Should we start with the community schools in these areas? They are underfunded, and even the most well meaning teachers cannot begin to address the serious issues of children who witness violence, are abused, neglected or just happen to be children of children who are not equipped to handle parenting. Having a consisten adult who is nuturing, caring, and looking out for their well being is not something that can be "fixed" by putting more police on the streets.
Should we start with addiction and drugs? The people most in need of help have no money or means to recieve it. This costs our society much more than simply paying to address these issues directly.
How about mental health? Even the most well off indivuals struggling with mental health disorders can suffer for decades before recieving the correct treatment. What are those without the means to pay for expensive psychiatrists and medications to do. How does out society address those who don't even aknowledge that they are sick?
How do we start to build community pride? Say what you will about Father Michael Pfleger but he has managed to make a comminty proud of itself. Teaching residants that this is not the way it has to be, that they can make a difference and improve their community is something that people don't even know is possible. Hopelessness is a terrible and destructive condition.
This is a very large problem, that does not have a simple solution.Adding police to high profile areas is putting a bandaid on the situation.
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Permalink Reply by Dr. Doom on
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That was a nice post, Liz. I am not much of a social determinist but I find nothing mysterious about bored kids from Grand Crossing or Washington Park deciding to go up to one of the richest places in the world to piss all over it. Chicago had a massive influx of internal refugees and decided to warehouse most of them in neighborhoods isolated from the rest of the city and poorly served by basic social services. That has consequences that have never really been faced up to, and while most of the city is almost unbelievably safe by historical standards, the parts that aren't are really horrible places to grow up. It just doesn't shock me that a kid from such a place would want to go rob rich people.I'm not worried about being a wilding victim at all, because the city is going to flood affected areas with cops, but in the long run the problem is about reconnecting parts of the city that have been very effectively walled off from the functional part. No one in power actually seems to want to do that, so we'll just get more quarantining leading to broken communities becoming that much more broken and their problems spilling out into rich people land ad infinitum.
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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on
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Liz and Dr. Doom both said it well. Unless the city and our society are prepared to do more to help solve the problems caused by decades of warehousing many of the poorest people in isolated areas, having the police intervene is ultimately just a band-aid.
Residents of the projects and poor neighborhoods need better education, support to kids and their families so that those kids actually value their education enough to want to learn (and have resources if their parents don't have the skills to help them with homework), better transportation, and more jobs that pay a living wage that are appropriate for someone without a college education. Not everyone will go to college. People need to be able to support themselves. This is a big complex problem with many causes and no easy answers.
Dr. Doom said:That was a nice post, Liz. I am not much of a social determinist but I find nothing mysterious about bored kids from Grand Crossing or Washington Park deciding to go up to one of the richest places in the world to piss all over it. Chicago had a massive influx of internal refugees and decided to warehouse most of them in neighborhoods isolated from the rest of the city and poorly served by basic social services. That has consequences that have never really been faced up to, and while most of the city is almost unbelievably safe by historical standards, the parts that aren't are really horrible places to grow up. It just doesn't shock me that a kid from such a place would want to go rob rich people.I'm not worried about being a wilding victim at all, because the city is going to flood affected areas with cops, but in the long run the problem is about reconnecting parts of the city that have been very effectively walled off from the functional part. No one in power actually seems to want to do that, so we'll just get more quarantining leading to broken communities becoming that much more broken and their problems spilling out into rich people land ad infinitum.
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Permalink Reply by Vondo on
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Ask that oncologist in his sixties who was robbed and assaulted and I'm almost positive that he will tell you that he felt a lot less violated when he learned what neighborhoods these kids are supposedly from. He might even agree that we should not expect a 16 or 18 yr old to know that it is wrong and illegal to beat and rob other people, no matter how rich they are or how nice an area they decide to have the gall to sit and mind their own business in.
I grew up and still live in, a lower income/working class neighborhood. Could my local public school have been better? Sure. Would it have been nice if there were more higher paying jobs around here? You bet. But do most teens that live near me know the difference between right and wrong? Of course. Don't get me wrong, there is no shortage of ne'er do-wells around here like everywhere else in Chicago. There are also tons of successful business owners, college grads, and law-abiding citizens here too.
Stereotypes go both ways. It is wrong to assume that young minority kids from poor neighborhoods are automatically prone to be criminals. It is equally wrong to assume that because they are minorities and from poor neighborhoods, they lack the ability to differentiate right from wrong and the ability to abstain from robbing people. It is kind of insulting to me as a former teen form a low income neighborhood to hear someone say "its the rotten system that makes you more likely to commit crimes, you really don't have a choice as to your own actions".
Sometimes people just rob people because they want an iPad, or because they saw a news story about a wilding and thought it would be cool to do it too...
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@Vando
Since you're patting yourself in the back here, what are you implying?
You don't think that generations of racial segregation play a role here?
Do you think everybody has the same opportunities, like yourself?
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